HB 2016-1050 - Hanukkah as a Federal Holiday Act (FAILED)

[NeverAgain]

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Sponsor: Rep. LLR (Lab-NY)

I open this for 48-hour debate.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

This seems a little inefficient, can't there just be one day celebrated as a federal holiday and if Jewish government workers want to take the days off they can be given a religious exemption?

[LLR]

This seems a little inefficient, can't there just be one day celebrated as a federal holiday and if Jewish government workers want to take the days off they can be given a religious exemption?

It's not about the economic benefit, it's about ceremonial benefit

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Not just economically, it is quite odd to shut down the government for 8 days.

[Anna Komnene]

There's a part of me that likes this idea.  It's important for people to be able to celebrate their traditions, but it kind of begs the question: if we're going to make a holiday for Hanukkah, why not Vesak, Diwali, Ramadan, or festivals like Makahiki, Harvest, or Summer Solstice?  For that matter, why not Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur?  If we wanted to make a holiday for everything, it would end up being a never ending torrent of celebrations.  I'm sure that would be nice, but most people wouldn't have any connection to them.  This might be one of those issues where it's better for regions or states to come up with their own holidays or festivals because they have a better idea of who wants to do what in their area.

Still, I do think it's important for people to be able to celebrate their religious traditions.  Maybe requiring employers to offer a small number of non-denominational religious days off per year so that people could use them whenever their preferred holiday or festival came up during the year.

[Santander]

This is a wonderful idea. In Israel, Hannukah is a public holiday, but businesses operate as usual and people still go to work. I don't see any reason why we could not do the same in Atlasia.

[LLR]

This is a wonderful idea. In Israel, Hannukah is a public holiday, but businesses operate as usual and people still go to work. I don't see any reason why we could not do the same in Atlasia.

Yes, that was my idea. Thanks, Santander

[Leinad]

I agree with basically all of both Siren and dfw's points.

Maybe requiring employers to offer a small number of non-denominational religious days off per year so that people could use them whenever their preferred holiday or festival came up during the year.

This is a good idea--although I wouldn't just limit it to religious days.

This is a wonderful idea. In Israel, Hannukah is a public holiday, but businesses operate as usual and people still go to work. I don't see any reason why we could not do the same in Atlasia.

I suppose this is a fair point, but does it not open us up to recognize *all* religious holidays?

[Santander]

Maybe requiring employers to offer a small number of non-denominational religious days off per year so that people could use them whenever their preferred holiday or festival came up during the year.

This is a good idea--although I wouldn't just limit it to religious days.

Although public holidays often have business-related consequences, they primarily serve a cultural purpose. As a pro-market, liberty-oriented conservative, I think it is unacceptable for the government to mandate arbitrary regulations on businesses regarding time off for non-mandatory religious observances. (freedom of religion already covers mandatory observances) I think it is an even worse idea to extend such rights to secular activities. Freedom of religion means that people have the right to practice their own religion, and there is no guarantee of equal accommodation for observances that exist outside of one's religion. For example, an atheist could not claim a religious exemption for school vaccinations, and a Presbyterian could not claim a religious exemption for having their photo on their driver's license.

With all that being said, Hannukkah is rather unique in that it does not have Biblical origins and is perhaps as much a cultural holiday as it is a religious one. It has a unique and long history of recognition by Presidents and the US Government, and I think it deserves some form of official status to affirm its special place in our society.

[Anna Komnene]

Wouldn't a perspective focused on religious liberty be more concerned with giving people the ability to decide what holidays they should observe rather than having the government tell them what they should do?  It just seems kind of arbitrary to pick just one.  As far as I'm aware, most Jews view Yom Kippur as more important than Hanukkah for their religious observance.  Here in NY, schools give students the day off for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but there's no similar thing for Hanukkah.

[Leinad]

It seems our predicament is as follows: we want to be fair to everyone, but the more I think about that the consequences of recognizing everyone's holiday can get absurd.

Like, the "religious" distinction is completely arbitrary. I can make up a religious and say some day is my religion's holiday, or someone can look on the internet for some obscure religious holiday that happens to fall on that day and pretend to have that religion.

I do agree with Santander's point regarding private businesses, so I think the best thing to do would probably be to end federal recognition of religious holidays. (Outrage chain reminding me why I usually stay on the sidelines regarding holiday discussions coming in 3...2...1...)

[NeverAgain]

Extending this another 24 hours.

[Enduro]

It seems our predicament is as follows: we want to be fair to everyone, but the more I think about that the consequences of recognizing everyone's holiday can get absurd.

Like, the "religious" distinction is completely arbitrary. I can make up a religious and say some day is my religion's holiday, or someone can look on the internet for some obscure religious holiday that happens to fall on that day and pretend to have that religion.

I do agree with Santander's point regarding private businesses, so I think the best thing to do would probably be to end federal recognition of religious holidays. (Outrage chain reminding me why I usually stay on the sidelines regarding holiday discussions coming in 3...2...1...)

Not that bad of an idea, but is Christmas, with all the overcommercialization and lack of focus on Jesus, still a Christian holiday? Is Halloween a religious holiday with it's Christian vs Paganism history? What about Thanksgiving, a holiday not technically religious, but has prayer as a major staple of Thanksgiving tradition? Any other holiday with religion as a major part of it I'm missing?

[NeverAgain]

Okay, trying to clear up old bills. Been really dumb about this.

Final Vote!

Vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

[Enduro]

Abstain.

[NeverAgain]

Well then. I guess I am going to extend this a bit. 2 days. Getting y'all some PMs.

[Goldwater]

Abstain

[NeverAgain]

As much as I strongly respect the feelings and wishes of the Jewish community, as I do all religious communites. I feel that there are numerous provisions, federal and local, that allow those in the Jewish Community ample time to worship and pray as they please. I also second the words spoken here about many other Holidays in many other religions that this bill ignores. I feel that the status quo of representing the "holiday season" is the best for all, and believe that this is what we should support for our brothers and sisters.

Therefore, I vote Nay on this bill.

[Anna Komnene]

Nay

[Mike Thick]

Abstain.

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Abstain

[Leinad]

Is there a record for most abstentions?

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Is there a record for most abstentions?

Ballot Descriptions would be a good contender.

[Leinad]

Is there a record for most abstentions?

Ballot Descriptions would be a good contender.

Ah yes, and I seem to have made a snarky remark on the abstentions then, too!

[Santander]

Aye

I am proud to unapologetically stand with Jewish Atlasians.