Heck on tape: 'I really' want to support Trump but I can't
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  Heck on tape: 'I really' want to support Trump but I can't
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Author Topic: Heck on tape: 'I really' want to support Trump but I can't  (Read 1570 times)
Torie
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« on: October 20, 2016, 07:54:51 AM »

Despite the negative sounding headline, this glimpse into Heck's mind about the Trump situation actually makes me think more highly of him. He strikes me as an honest man.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2016, 10:15:27 AM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2016, 03:47:14 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control
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Skye
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2016, 03:53:57 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

Well they sure as hell ain't gonna lose this chance.

Plus, Heck is losing because sore Trump supporters.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 03:56:43 PM »
« Edited: October 20, 2016, 03:58:27 PM by Virginia »

New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

Uh, what? It's not our fault they are losing it. Why would we not go after seats we can win? What good is it leaving these "honorable" Republicans sticking around so they can form a unified front against basically every single thing Hillary (or any Democrat really) wants to do?

Democrats should pick off every single candidate they possibly can until the GOP is nothing more than a backwater rump party. Then maybe the GOP can do some soul-searching, collect themselves and come back with candidates for president that aren't bigoted sexual predators.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2016, 03:58:25 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

That's definitely a problem that not enough people realize, but it's not as though the "crazies" are easy to beat.  Like I don't think any amount of investment would get dems over the top in deep red states, so they have to take the chances they can get.  Besides, just because Heck is maybe okay, doesn't mean Cortez Masto isn't better.  CCM is my favorite Senate candidate this year.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2016, 04:08:43 PM »

New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

Uh, what? It's not our fault they are losing it. Why would we not go after seats we can win? What good is it leaving these "honorable" Republicans sticking around so they can form a unified front against basically every single thing Hillary (or any Democrat really) wants to do?

Democrats should pick off every single candidate they possibly can until the GOP is nothing more than a backwater rump party. Then maybe the GOP can do some soul-searching, collect themselves and come back with candidates for president that aren't bigoted sexual predators.

Democrats can't talk about nominating bigoted sexual predators. Bill Clinton is a rapist and is rumored to be very racist - at the very least, he uses dogwhistles.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2016, 04:11:38 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

The purpose of the Democratic party is to elect Democratic politicians to enact Democratic policies. We're not responsible for what goes on on the other side.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2016, 04:22:50 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

The purpose of the Democratic party is to elect Democratic politicians to enact Democratic policies. We're not responsible for what goes on on the other side.

You are responsible for discrediting most major moderate Republicans by defeating them in statewide elections, ruining their national chances.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2016, 04:27:18 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

That's definitely a problem that not enough people realize, but it's not as though the "crazies" are easy to beat.  Like I don't think any amount of investment would get dems over the top in deep red states, so they have to take the chances they can get.  Besides, just because Heck is maybe okay, doesn't mean Cortez Masto isn't better.  CCM is my favorite Senate candidate this year.

Just out of curiosity: why? Is there anything notable about her other than the fact that she would be the first Latina Senator if/when she takes office? Not meant as a rhetorical question, either; I don't know much about her.

Well, getting a Latina in the Senate would be a great accomplishment.  I'm a big believer that personal experience is a big part of shaping legislative agenda for politicians.  As a Latina, she would bring a different perspective to the Senate and a much needed one.  She's likely to be a more reliable supporter of comprehensive immigration reform (and to ensure that is written in a way that takes into account immigrant concerns), not just because she's a Latina, but probably immigrant groups will be more willing to trust her with their concerns and fears.

As AG of Nevada, she's also been an important advocate against human trafficking and for assisting victims of domestic violence (big issue for me) and has shown that she's willing to take on the banking industry with some of the cases she pursued.  Plus, she's said things that I like about protecting public lands and creating more green jobs.

Tulsi Gabbard is one of my favorite representatives too for a similar reason.  As a female combat veteran, she has experiences that other people simply don't have, and that's led her to sponsor bills that help protect women from sexual assault in the military.  Some of these issues are pretty uncontroversial and pass easily, but it's important to remember that just because something passed easily, doesn't mean that it would have been proposed by just anyone.
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Young Conservative
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2016, 05:18:02 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

There are exactly zero "honorable" Republicans in major office.
Wow. The partisanship is strong with this one...
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SATW
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2016, 06:09:10 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

The purpose of the Democratic party is to elect Democratic politicians to enact Democratic policies. We're not responsible for what goes on on the other side.

You are responsible for discrediting most major moderate Republicans by defeating them in statewide elections, ruining their national chances.

Joe Heck is not a moderate. He's a right-wing lunatic just like every other politician in the far-right, white nationalist party he's a member of. Just because he's not a bomb-thrower (which is solely due to the fact that he's a politician in a blue-ish swing state) doesn't mean that he's some sort of wonderful centrist, and even if he was, it's irrelevant, because he would still be a reliable vote for McConnell's right-wing extremist majority*.

*not that McConnell will have a majority come January in our universe, but in the universe where Heck pulls off a win in November, that would almost certainly mean that the GOP will keep it's majority in the Senate.

Lol, you are the left-wing version of the right-wing tea party trolls you claim to hate so much.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2016, 06:43:29 PM »

A bit off-topic, but I think the party that wins this race will control the Senate. Its the bellwether race.

Agreed
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2016, 07:18:23 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

The purpose of the Democratic party is to elect Democratic politicians to enact Democratic policies. We're not responsible for what goes on on the other side.

You are responsible for discrediting most major moderate Republicans by defeating them in statewide elections, ruining their national chances.

So "major moderate Republicans" are entitled to running unopposed by virtue of being moderate? How democratic!
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Heisenberg
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2016, 07:20:59 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

The purpose of the Democratic party is to elect Democratic politicians to enact Democratic policies. We're not responsible for what goes on on the other side.

You are responsible for discrediting most major moderate Republicans by defeating them in statewide elections, ruining their national chances.

Joe Heck is not a moderate. He's a right-wing lunatic just like every other politician in the far-right, white nationalist party he's a member of. Just because he's not a bomb-thrower (which is solely due to the fact that he's a politician in a blue-ish swing state) doesn't mean that he's some sort of wonderful centrist, and even if he was, it's irrelevant, because he would still be a reliable vote for McConnell's right-wing extremist majority*.

*not that McConnell will have a majority come January in our universe, but in the universe where Heck pulls off a win in November, that would almost certainly mean that the GOP will keep it's majority in the Senate.

Lol, you are the left-wing version of the right-wing tea party trolls you claim to hate so much.
I agree with you, Sunrise.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2016, 07:23:44 PM »

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2016, 07:30:26 PM »

Yeah, it's definitely to his honor.

He still must be defeated, though.
New Democratic Plan: Defeat all honorable Republicans in major office and wonder why the crazies are taking control

There are exactly zero "honorable" Republicans in major office.
Wow. The irony is strong with this one...
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2016, 07:35:22 PM »

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2016, 07:38:43 PM »

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
Republicans have done the same thing by targeting Former Senators Landrieu, Begich, and Bayh. This prevalence of party and ideology before country and unity is a bipartisan affair, and both parties are responsible for it.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2016, 07:41:12 PM »

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
Republicans have done the same thing by targeting Former Senators Landrieu, Begich, and Bayh. This prevalence of party and ideology before country and unity is a bipartisan affair, and both parties are responsible for it.

Again, you're saying that "moderates" (by whatever arbitrary definition you use) are entitled to win reelection. That's just ridiculous.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2016, 07:50:39 PM »

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
Republicans have done the same thing by targeting Former Senators Landrieu, Begich, and Bayh. This prevalence of party and ideology before country and unity is a bipartisan affair, and both parties are responsible for it.
I definitely sympathize with the idea that it'd be better for the country if there were more conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans, but it's not parties' responsibility to empower the other party. You cannot blame Democrats for wanting to win Nevada, and you cannot blame Republicans for wanting to win Louisiana or Indiana. You cannot expect actors to act altruistically, and frankly it's bizarre to say they should.

But Wolfentoad's insane hackishness is, indeed, mind-blowing.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2016, 08:26:41 PM »

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
Republicans have done the same thing by targeting Former Senators Landrieu, Begich, and Bayh. This prevalence of party and ideology before country and unity is a bipartisan affair, and both parties are responsible for it.

Again, you're saying that "moderates" (by whatever arbitrary definition you use) are entitled to win reelection. That's just ridiculous.

Moderates have been politically explicitly targeted by both major parties for decades. They are entitled to nothing, but for some reason both parties love to mock and ridicule all moderates they can't defeat.

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
Republicans have done the same thing by targeting Former Senators Landrieu, Begich, and Bayh. This prevalence of party and ideology before country and unity is a bipartisan affair, and both parties are responsible for it.
I definitely sympathize with the idea that it'd be better for the country if there were more conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans, but it's not parties' responsibility to empower the other party. You cannot blame Democrats for wanting to win Nevada, and you cannot blame Republicans for wanting to win Louisiana or Indiana. You cannot expect actors to act altruistically, and frankly it's bizarre to say they should.

But Wolfentoad's insane hackishness is, indeed, mind-blowing.

I do expect parties to put their country first, which is something their explicit targeting of moderates and liberal Republicans/conservative Democrats does not do.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2016, 08:30:25 PM »

Can we please focus on the utter stupidity of what Kingpoleon posted for a second?
Republicans have done the same thing by targeting Former Senators Landrieu, Begich, and Bayh. This prevalence of party and ideology before country and unity is a bipartisan affair, and both parties are responsible for it.

Again, you're saying that "moderates" (by whatever arbitrary definition you use) are entitled to win reelection. That's just ridiculous.

Moderates have been politically explicitly targeted by both major parties for decades. They are entitled to nothing, but for some reason both parties love to mock and ridicule all moderates they can't defeat.

That's not true, and you know it. Moderates haven't been targeted by the opposite party because they were moderates. They have been targeted by the opposite party because their seats were competitive. Their seats were competitive because many voters there preferred the opposite party. Hence why the opposite party unseated them. It's called democracy.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2016, 08:38:10 PM »
« Edited: October 20, 2016, 09:04:25 PM by Siren »

Think about it this way.  The ideal scenario for a party is to control all 100 seats of the Senate.  Crazy right?  But if you're a political party, that's the ideal.  Obviously that will never happen because they have limited resources and because there are some states where no matter how much effort you put into an election, you're still almost definitely going to lose.  

The realistic scenario for a party is to get to a majority of the Senate.  In order to do that, they target the easiest seats to win.  If they're doing well, the party tries to expand and put resources into more seats to try to get to a super-majority.  That's not easy.  It requires a good electoral environment for the party and a lot of resources.  So basically the party is going to operate somewhere around the bare minimum majority and try to siphon off a few more seats.  Even though they want to win as many seats as possible, they aren't going to waste money and effort trying to win Idaho when the chances are pretty much zero and doing that might mean they not only lose Nevada but also their own majority.  

If I'm understanding right,  you'd prefer Democrats reorient their philosophy and their focus and try to have a caucus of states like Louisiana and Alaska instead of Nevada and Illinois.  The problem is Democrats can't just go into those states and win.  Republicans are really strong there.  Dems win sometimes, but it's not the norm.  Dems might be able to win Louisiana if they put everything they have into it but then lose Nevada, Illinois, and New Hampshire because they neglected them.  You're basically asking democrats to concede control of the Senate to the republicans.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2016, 09:12:24 PM »

That's not true, and you know it. Moderates haven't been targeted by the opposite party because they were moderates. They have been targeted by the opposite party because their seats were competitive. Their seats were competitive because many voters there preferred the opposite party. Hence why the opposite party unseated them. It's called democracy.
I totally agree with this. Seats do not "belong" to a certain party, whether they send moderates to D.C. or not. Electoral competition is extremely important.

You're basically asking democrats to concede control of the Senate to the republicans.
Not really, because he also demands this from Republicans.
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