Opinion of TJ in Cleve

[Torie]

One of the very best posters we have, highly informed, extremely intelligent, civil, an excellent writer, who brings a valuable perspective to this particular den of largely secular oriented kids.

[Torie]

I am reluctant personally to trash someone and dump them into the deplorables basket when their opposition to SSM is based on sincerely held religious beliefs that reflect the tenets of their church. Catholics by the way, believe that being gay is just fine, it's just their having sex that's "sinful" for reasons that have a certain Catch-22 aspect about it - to wit, sex is only to be within marriage, but alas gays cannot get into that state of sexual grace, because gays should not get married, given that SSS (same sex sex), is "disordered."  Obviously, I don't believe that. It feels totally "ordered" and "natural" to me!

[Torie]

Man, this thread has been derailed, but picking up on something Snowguy said, I think there is something to the suggestion that when you come out as a gay, it does influence you over time some on other matters. That has been my experience (I came out a few years ago as some of you witnessed right here on this forum). I do have more empathy for folks who face barriers of one sort or another, that it would be good to try to mitigate.

[Torie]

OK seriously, what the actual f**k is going on in this thread?

I make a simple post wondering if maybe, just maaaaaaaybe support for SSM isn't the only morally relevant litmus test among current political issues, and all of a sudden, "I don't care about LGBT rights", I have "contempt for SSM", I think it's a "bourgeois" issue, and maybe I'm even a little homophobic, who knows?

Have you all actually gone insane?

Perhaps maybe there is a diplomacy problem here. Surely there was a way to communicate that you are less inclined than some others to give more of a pass to those who are wrong on bread and butter issues, as compared to equality for gays, without this kind of blowback don't you think?

I dissent from the whole notion that one should be tarred with character flaws over their beliefs on an issue (even if absolutely wrong), if held in good faith for reasons not animated by animus or hate or anger, but rather because weight is given to aspects as to which others don't give that level of weight (often involving a priori assumptions). That is what opened the Pandora's Box here in my view, and then lack of diplomacy caused the skid down into the abyss.

That's my postmortem!  And TJ is still great. Period. So says this Godless gay man.