What's the matter with Jim Justice?

[On Fleek]

How come that Jim Justice is the only Democratic gubernatorial candidate not endorsed by you

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Atlas Dems are anti-coal and thus anti-miner and perhaps anti-worker. Plus Justice didn't vote for Obama and is leaving the presidential part of the ballot blank this year.

[IceSpear]

What's right with Jim Justice?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Stupid name

[LLR]

Mountain Party is much cooler

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

What's right with Jim Justice?

Your party is in denial. While I agree the while "Didn't vote for Obama and Hillary" thing is anathema to the base, but if your party just became pro-coal, it would pick up a lot of votes in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, while losing basically no one.

[Xing]

What's right with Jim Justice?

Your party is in denial. While I agree the while "Didn't vote for Obama and Hillary" thing is anathema to the base, but if your party just became pro-coal, it would pick up a lot of votes in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, while losing basically no one.

Actually, the Democratic Party has probably lost those voters forever, and if they were to go pro-coal, could easily lose swaths of people who, you know, actually care about the environment. Maybe, just maybe, we're more concerned with combating climate change.

Anyway, Jim Justice was literally a Republican not that long ago, and probably would be more conservative than the average Republican in plenty of states, so I don't see how this is a question.

[Cashew]

Mountain Party is much cooler

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

What's right with Jim Justice?

Your party is in denial. While I agree the while "Didn't vote for Obama and Hillary" thing is anathema to the base, but if your party just became pro-coal, it would pick up a lot of votes in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, while losing basically no one.

Actually, the Democratic Party has probably lost those voters forever, and if they were to go pro-coal, could easily lose swaths of people who, you know, actually care about the environment. Maybe, just maybe, we're more concerned with combating climate change.

In this case, the Dems and GOP will have the same position on coal. So unless anti-coal folks are going to stay home or vote Green, they'll vote Dem. Ultimately I think the overwhelming, overwhelming majority will still vote dem.

[The Arizonan]

Jim Justice sounds like the name of a Marvel character created by Stan Lee.

On topic, I don't see much wrong with him.

[JerryArkansas]

Because he really doesn't care about his workers.  No better than any of the other coal billionaires who force unsafe mine conditions on workers.

[jamestroll]

What's right with Jim Justice?

Your party is in denial. While I agree the while "Didn't vote for Obama and Hillary" thing is anathema to the base, but if your party just became pro-coal, it would pick up a lot of votes in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, while losing basically no one.

I admit and concede that coal is still an important energy source for a while longer, but as time goes on and technology advances, it will be less and less viable.

Solar Power panel payments are already less expensive monthly payment then most utility bills in Utah!

[Enduro]

I know! There is no justice in the treatment of this politician!

(See what I did there?😉)

[Xing]

What's right with Jim Justice?

Your party is in denial. While I agree the while "Didn't vote for Obama and Hillary" thing is anathema to the base, but if your party just became pro-coal, it would pick up a lot of votes in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, North Carolina, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Virginia, while losing basically no one.

Actually, the Democratic Party has probably lost those voters forever, and if they were to go pro-coal, could easily lose swaths of people who, you know, actually care about the environment. Maybe, just maybe, we're more concerned with combating climate change.

In this case, the Dems and GOP will have the same position on coal. So unless anti-coal folks are going to stay home or vote Green, they'll vote Dem. Ultimately I think the overwhelming, overwhelming majority will still vote dem.

Why would they start to vote Democratic if the Democrats pandered to them on that one issue? It would be an obvious pander, and many of them also find the Democratic Party too socially liberal. Democrats going pro-coal would definitely result in a net loss for them.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

^ The mining community wasn't turned away from Dems over Abortion, they voted for the pro-choice Bill Clinton twice. The reason they didn't vote for Al Gore was because he was ardently anti-coal. That's the issue that converted them to the GOP, and it's what will convert them back if the Dems are willing to become pro-coal again.

[Antonio the Sixth]

He's an awful conservadem.

[evergreenarbor]

He's an awful conservadem.

[Figueira]

Wulfric, why don't you care about the environment?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

By and large, the coal industry itself destroyed as a source of stable employment with its war on unions, it's cost-cutting and move away from shaft mining. Now (seeing as I don't think there are any shaft mines left) the coal communities are all largely broken, because the remaining coal mines are very dependent on the shifting price of coal and the jobs tend to be more ephemeral. West Virginia needs jobs and its counties need a dependent source if replacement revenue, which can only be reached once you acknowledge that Appalachian coal is in a period of structural decline. After all it is easy to romantacise the job, but it is a nasty, dangerous occupation where you are exploited to a horrid degree.

The fact that the Democratic Party - a party ostensibly for workers - is reduced to literally running a coal plutocrat is proof they don't really get it.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Wulfric, why don't you care about the environment?

I just see it as very hypocritical to be for creating jobs, but to want to destroy an entire industry of jobs.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Many industries have done declined before Wulfric. The federal Democrats have rationally adopted a plan of adapting with the change rather than denying reality and siding with the greedy executives.

[Figueira]

Wulfric, why don't you care about the environment?

I just see it as very hypocritical to be for creating jobs, but to want to destroy an entire industry of jobs.

Supporting job creation does not mean supporting job creation at all costs. Obviously I would love for West Virginia's economy to improve, but they need a better solution than coal.

[DINGO Joe]

A pity Atlas wasn't around in the early 20th century so we couldn't hear Wulfric rage against the "Horseless carriage" costing buggy manufactures jobs.

In 2015, Wyoming produced 41.9% of the coal in the US, but only accounts for 10% of coal mining jobs.  Wyoming is the #1 reason for loss of coal mining jobs in Appalachia over the last 30-40 years.  So, Wulfric should direct his rage at Wyoming.

Just as they say all politics are local, so are energy politics and the jobs that can come with them.  States that have adopted wind and solar are states that have the great energy potential (wind=great plains, solar=desert southwest).  These states have little to do with the coal industry and generate income and jobs locally from alternative energy, so they don't give a rats ass about coal mining jobs.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_1_14_b

Note that Texas alone produces more wind energy that all the states east of the Mississippi combined and the only state east of the Mississippi in the top 10 is Illinois.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_1_17_b

Again, solar skews to the Southwest though some brain states east of the Mississippi (MA, NJ, NC) have been early adopters of solar.  Overall, solar does not yet have anywhere near the impact that wind does.  

So, if wind and solar are primarily used in regions of the US that don't get Appalachian coal, what's costing Appalachia all these coal jobs (besides Wyoming)--natural gas.  Ten years ago, if you wanted to run a power plant on NG in PA or VA or NJ or OH, etc... you have to pipe it up from Texas or Louisiana.  That's alot of pipe.  Now it's right in your backyard.  Plus the NG Combined Cycle power plant runs circles around any coal plant in cost and efficiency.  Ten years ago PA produced 10X the electricity from coal than NG, this year NG has surpassed coal and another four NG power plants are under construction.  The last two coal plants in NJ failed in the most recent capacity auction (meaning other power plants underbid them) so they are shutting down.  VA, NC and MD are all in whole hog on the NG train.  OH (home of the Utica) is lagging a bit, but the state recently refused to subsidize coal plants and several NG plants are under construction, plus the 2nd largest coal mine in the state will close this year, not because of Obama or the EPA, but because it's run out of coal.  Even Louisville, KY replaced their coal plant with a sexy new NGCC plant.  I could go on and on, but the tiny brained people out there aren't going to grasp this.

One state that isn't jumping on the NG train is of course WV (even though part of the state is in the Marcellus/Utica).  Local politics prevents anything from disrupting King Coal.  Of course, WV lacks one thing all the other states around them have--people.  So, WV is doomed to it's shrinking backwater status, producing coal for itself, but finding states they used to send coal too have moved on.  There is one caveat for WV in that it's the largest of met coal, which is a higher and rare grade of coal used in steel making.  It's subject to global busts and booms, but should provide WV with a basic base of jobs for at least the next couple of decades.  

By comparison, Eastern KY has very little met coal and has been totally eviscerated by NG.  The state of KY provides incredibly comprehensive current and historical info on the state coal industry and has amazing graphs and maps to illustrate the decline of coal in EKY.

http://energy.ky.gov/Coal%20Facts%20Library/Kentucky%20Coal%20Facts%20-%2016th%20Edition%20(2016).pdf

Overall, coal employment in Eastern KY has fallen from 15,000 when Obama took office to around 3,500 today.  It'll probably bottom out around 2,000.

[DINGO Joe]

As far as Justice vs Cole.  Well Justice has no plans to reverse the Medicare expansion (which poor unhealthy WV needs) whereas Cole says he will reverse it.  That alone makes Justice the better choice.

Personally, I kind of like Justice even though professionally he's a self serving weasel (like most corporate people, especially in energy).  He sold a met coal mine in WV to the Russians (Mechel) at the top of the market and bought it backed from them for pennies on the dollar after the met coal market crashed.  He did basically save the Greenbriar and made a tiny corner of the state more pleasant to live in and diversified from coal.  He has an "Aw shucks"  facade that's easier to tolerate than the arrogant stupidity of certain other billionaire politicians.

Professionally, like a said, he's a weasel.  When times got tough her stretched his cash flow by delaying tax payments or payments to subcontractors for as long as he legally could or even until the courts forced him to pay.  Unfortunately, it all to common a ploy by corporations not just in energy but even Amazon and Wal Mart are notorious for stretching out payments to subs.  It's a sh*t rolls downhill type of thing.

[SWE]

Wulfric, why don't you care about the environment?

I just see it as very hypocritical to be for creating jobs, but to want to destroy an entire industry of jobs.

You really can't claim to be siding with the coal workers when you're so dishonest and paternalistic towards them. But please, continue to assert things you know nothing about. It's quite entertaining.