The Next DNC Chair: TOM PEREZ WINS, makes Ellison deputy chair

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

A question:

How many actual DNC members have endorsed Ellison? He's rolling out a ton of endorsements (including my favorite Indianapolis city counselor, oddly) but very, very few of them will actually cast a vote in February if I interpret the rules correctly.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So now being critical of political Zionism is equivalent to anti-Semitism? Don't the pro-Israel lapdogs have enough control over the Republican Party? Why must they also control our party as well? I believe Israel is practically an Apartheid state as well, which has unfairly taken and occupied land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians (Christian, Jewish, and Muslim) and has engaged in acts of terror and militarized oppression to maintain and expand their state at the expense of the natives. I suppose that makes me anti-Semitic as well...

There are no Jewish Palestinians. Those are called Israelis.

And yes, your post is grossly inaccurate and has shades of anti-semitism in it. Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitism. Lying about it is.

[JA]

So now being critical of political Zionism is equivalent to anti-Semitism? Don't the pro-Israel lapdogs have enough control over the Republican Party? Why must they also control our party as well? I believe Israel is practically an Apartheid state as well, which has unfairly taken and occupied land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians (Christian, Jewish, and Muslim) and has engaged in acts of terror and militarized oppression to maintain and expand their state at the expense of the natives. I suppose that makes me anti-Semitic as well...

There are no Jewish Palestinians. Those are called Israelis.

And yes, your post is grossly inaccurate and has shades of anti-semitism in it. Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitism. Lying about it is.

Before the advent of the state of Israel, yes, there were Jews who lived in those lands alongside Muslims and Christians. No, they were not "Israelis." And no, my post is not grossly inaccurate, nor does it have any anti-Semitism. That you conflate generally accurate criticism of political Zionism with hatred of Jews shows that you're either ignorant or simply pushing an agenda.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So now being critical of political Zionism is equivalent to anti-Semitism? Don't the pro-Israel lapdogs have enough control over the Republican Party? Why must they also control our party as well? I believe Israel is practically an Apartheid state as well, which has unfairly taken and occupied land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians (Christian, Jewish, and Muslim) and has engaged in acts of terror and militarized oppression to maintain and expand their state at the expense of the natives. I suppose that makes me anti-Semitic as well...

There are no Jewish Palestinians. Those are called Israelis.

And yes, your post is grossly inaccurate and has shades of anti-semitism in it. Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitism. Lying about it is.

Before the advent of the state of Israel, yes, there were Jews who lived in those lands alongside Muslims and Christians. No, they were not "Israelis." And no, my post is not grossly inaccurate, nor does it have any anti-Semitism. That you conflate generally accurate criticism of political Zionism with hatred of Jews shows that you're either ignorant or simply pushing an agenda.

Yes, the Jewish residents of the British holding of Mandatory Palestine became Israelis when Israel was created by UN decision. No "Jewish Palestinian" ever had land "occupied and taken from them", except by the Ottoman Empire, that prohibited Jews from owning land.

But I'm sure some guy who named himself after a group of brutal historical murderers knows more about my family's history on the land than I do.

[ApatheticAustrian]

historic relativism which cancels out decisions made 70 to 80 years ago would bring turmoil to this whole world.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

historic relativism which cancels out decisions made 70 to 80 years ago would bring turmoil to this whole world.

It's very common in the actual regions in turmoil - Pakistan and India, North and South Korea, China and Taiwan, all of which have at least one party that has never conceded - but for some reason it's only popular as a hobby with edgy westerners when it comes to Israel and the rest of the British Mandate of Palestine.

[JA]

So now being critical of political Zionism is equivalent to anti-Semitism? Don't the pro-Israel lapdogs have enough control over the Republican Party? Why must they also control our party as well? I believe Israel is practically an Apartheid state as well, which has unfairly taken and occupied land rightfully belonging to the Palestinians (Christian, Jewish, and Muslim) and has engaged in acts of terror and militarized oppression to maintain and expand their state at the expense of the natives. I suppose that makes me anti-Semitic as well...

There are no Jewish Palestinians. Those are called Israelis.

And yes, your post is grossly inaccurate and has shades of anti-semitism in it. Criticizing Israel isn't anti-semitism. Lying about it is.

Before the advent of the state of Israel, yes, there were Jews who lived in those lands alongside Muslims and Christians. No, they were not "Israelis." And no, my post is not grossly inaccurate, nor does it have any anti-Semitism. That you conflate generally accurate criticism of political Zionism with hatred of Jews shows that you're either ignorant or simply pushing an agenda.

Yes, the Jewish residents of the British holding of Mandatory Palestine became Israelis when Israel was created by UN decision. No "Jewish Palestinian" ever had land "occupied and taken from them", except by the Ottoman Empire, that prohibited Jews from owning land.

But I'm sure some guy who named himself after a group of brutal historical murderers knows more about my family's history on the land than I do.

I won't argue that point, yet it only shows that the native Jews were subsequently given privilege over the Christians and Muslims who also lived in that land. Why should they be given that privilege (and no, I don't care that it was by Western-controlled UN mandate)? That land no more belonged or belongs to Jews than to the Christians or Muslims who also lived there. And that's my point. Not only that, but during the founding years of the Israeli state, yes, there were acts of terrorism targeted at those not privileged enough to be Jewish. Israel also unlawfully expanded their territory at the expense of the Palestinians. Today, they continue bulldozing their homes and practically imprisoning them in their own lands. You'd think the people who were so brutally persecuted and killed during WWII would've known better than to mistreat other groups of people that way.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The "they of all people" argument followed by a comparison of Israeli Jews to Nazi Germany. I think I just hit bingo.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The "they of all people" argument followed by a comparison of Israeli Jews to Nazi Germany. I think I just hit bingo.

There are some unfortunate parallels between Zionist claims to the West Bank and the German policy of lebensraum.  Fortunately, the parallels with Nazi ideology are far from complete, and I hope they never come close.  The parallels with South African apartheid however are stronger, especially among those Zionists seeking to limit Palestinians to bantustans that remain dependent upon Israel, but have no real power or independence.  I can see why bantustans would be appealing to some Zionists, as a one-state solution means that Israel cannot be both Jewish and democratic. That said, a two-state solution isn't viable right now either. The best I can see is that the Israeli/Palestinian mess continues to muddle through for another generation or two until such time as the conditions occur for the existence of two viable and independent states of Israel and Palestine.  It strikes even me as a utopian fantasy, but it is the only way I see for anything other than a dystopian future for the region.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Jesus ing Christ, people.

[they don't love you like i love you]

If Ellison is anti-Semitic how does he win St. Louis Park every two years?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Aaaaaaaaaand back to being R. Fck Ellison.

putting aside the actual argument for a second - weren't you perfectly fine with supporting the "lesser evil" before…?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The "they of all people" argument followed by a comparison of Israeli Jews to Nazi Germany. I think I just hit bingo.

There are some unfortunate parallels between Zionist claims to the West Bank and the German policy of lebensraum.  Fortunately, the parallels with Nazi ideology are far from complete, and I hope they never come close.  The parallels with South African apartheid however are stronger, especially among those Zionists seeking to limit Palestinians to bantustans that remain dependent upon Israel, but have no real power or independence.  I can see why bantustans would be appealing to some Zionists, as a one-state solution means that Israel cannot be both Jewish and democratic. That said, a two-state solution isn't viable right now either. The best I can see is that the Israeli/Palestinian mess continues to muddle through for another generation or two until such time as the conditions occur for the existence of two viable and independent states of Israel and Palestine.  It strikes even me as a utopian fantasy, but it is the only way I see for anything other than a dystopian future for the region.

No need to bring in the Nazis, it's really quite similar to apartheid.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

So now we're gonna have an anti-Semitic DNC Chair...and people here thing this is a good thing?  Scary!

[windjammer]

I wanted Howard Dean to be honest,he was clearly competent.

So now we're gonna have an anti-Semitic DNC Chair...and people here thing this is a good thing?  Scary!

Could you elaborate please? I know nothing about him.

[DavidB.]

If Ernst is going to go on an anti-Semitic rant again, which is to be expected, could I at least not be forced to see his posts because he is a moderator here?

[AtorBoltox]

If Ernst is going to go on an anti-Semitic rant again, which is to be expected, could I at least not be forced to see his posts because he is a moderator here?

Nothing he posted is anti-Semitic. I'm sick of accusations of anti-Semitism being used to shut down debate about Israel.

[DavidB.]

If Ernst is going to go on an anti-Semitic rant again, which is to be expected, could I at least not be forced to see his posts because he is a moderator here?

Nothing he posted is anti-Semitic. I'm sick of accusations of anti-Semitism being used to shut down debate about Israel.

What you are sick of, Mr Privilege, is wholly irrelevant to me and the entire world. If it were up to people like you, black people would still not be allowed to sit in front of the bus.

[DavidB.]

Aaaaaaaaaand back to being R. Fck Ellison.

putting aside the actual argument for a second - weren't you perfectly fine with supporting the "lesser evil" before…?

Of course, but the point, to me, is that Ellison is not even the lesser evil.

You'd think the people who were so brutally persecuted and killed during WWII would've known better than to mistreat other groups of people that way.

Wow. Just wow.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Aaaaaaaaaand back to being R. Fck Ellison.

putting aside the actual argument for a second - weren't you perfectly fine with supporting the "lesser evil" before…?

Of course, but the point, to me, is that Ellison is not even the lesser evil.

claiming america panders to israel too much > historically high hate crime rates?

[AtorBoltox]

If Ernst is going to go on an anti-Semitic rant again, which is to be expected, could I at least not be forced to see his posts because he is a moderator here?

Nothing he posted is anti-Semitic. I'm sick of accusations of anti-Semitism being used to shut down debate about Israel.

What you are sick of, Mr Privilege, is wholly irrelevant to me and the entire world. If it were up to people like you, black people would still not be allowed to sit in front of the bus.

So having a critical view of the State of Israel=supporter of segregation?
You are utterly deranged. People like you are why Israel is rapidly losing the sympathy of the world.

[Intell]

If Ernst is going to go on an anti-Semitic rant again, which is to be expected, could I at least not be forced to see his posts because he is a moderator here?

Nothing he posted is anti-Semitic. I'm sick of accusations of anti-Semitism being used to shut down debate about Israel.

What you are sick of, Mr Privilege, is wholly irrelevant to me and the entire world. If it were up to people like you, black people would still not be allowed to sit in front of the bus.

I'm sorry but Israeli people, aren't the one's denied their own right to national sovereignty, nationality, and equality. The Israeli government under Likuid, is racist against the Palestinian people, and not ashamed to admit it.

Palestinian people, have considerably less power than the Israeli defence forces, and as a result, the Israeli governments policy and the expansion of Israeli Territory to Palestine is also godawful, displacing Palestinian people that lived there beforehand. The Israeli government has the vast amount of power, and is not afraid to use that power for the suppression of the Palestinian people.

With this, I remain a believer in the concept of the Jewish, Israeli state, but it should've been socialist, actual egalitarian socialism (mapam), and Israel wouldn't be as such segregated and discriminatory to the Palestinian People.

[DavidB.]

So having a critical view of the State of Israel=supporter of segregation?
You are utterly deranged. People like you are why Israel is rapidly losing the sympathy of the world.

Guess what? The State exists largely because of the fact that Israel simply cannot depend on the "sympathy of the world". Israel relying on the "sympathy of the world" gave us the pogroms. People like you gave us Auschwitz. Now we have the State and no one cares about scum like you and their "sympathies" anymore. "The world" only "sympathizes" with Israel if we are being killed. But we are not your slaves anymore, sorry to disappoint.

Ernst is probably going to apply his own anti-Jewish policy in terms of moderation with regard to this post, but whatever.

[AtorBoltox]

So having a critical view of the State of Israel=supporter of segregation?
You are utterly deranged. People like you are why Israel is rapidly losing the sympathy of the world.

Guess what? The State exists largely because of the fact that Israel simply cannot depend on the "sympathy of the world". Israel relying on the "sympathy of the world" gave us the pogroms. People like you gave us Auschwitz. Now we have the State and no one cares about scum like you and their "sympathies" anymore. "The world" only "sympathizes" with Israel if we are being killed. But we are not your slaves anymore, sorry to disappoint.

Ernst is probably going to apply his own anti-Jewish policy in terms of moderation with regard to this post, but whatever.

*sighs deeply*
So basically you think Israel can just do whatever it wants?

[AtorBoltox]

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I defend another poster who was critical of Israel and have now been accused of being a Nazi and a supporter of Jim Crow laws. Seriously, grow up.