Trump's cabinet: All white males?
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  Trump's cabinet: All white males?
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Author Topic: Trump's cabinet: All white males?  (Read 3734 times)
The_Doctor
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« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2016, 07:51:38 PM »

Third point. This already hurt the GOP. Trump lost the popular vote when W. won it by 2.5%. How do I know minorities voting Democratic affected the result?

W. won 44% of Latinos in his re-election. He won the popular vote. Trump won 29% (barely above Romney levels) and had the same amount of GOP votes among blacks basically. 1-2% improvement. Among the white vote, he improved by 4% margin wise over W.

This all ended up to boost his popular vote margin by 2% (e.g, W would have won by 4.5% if he had Trump's numbers among whites) but because of 77% of minorities voting against him, he lost the popular vote by 2 million votes.
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RI
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« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2016, 07:54:10 PM »

Selecting just white males shows that you don't care about representing all the American people.

So? Why on earth should the cabinet have to represent the demographics of the American people? Forcing equality for its own sake is asinine.
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2016, 07:56:07 PM »

Selecting just white males shows that you don't care about representing all the American people.

So? Why on earth should the cabinet have to represent the demographics of the American people? Forcing equality for its own sake is asinine.

That may be true. But thought question: what if you have no idea what non-white America is about?
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Hermit For Peace
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« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2016, 08:04:25 PM »


With regard to choosing the best qualified candidate, yes if you only surround yourself with white people then you are going to believe that they are the best qualified for a job compared with someone in a minority status who you aren't very familiar with.

The argument is bogus that in choosing a female or a minority you might have to choose a lesser qualified candidate. Trump has simply willingly reduced his scope of candidates to choose from by only surrounding himself with white people in his life.

This is going backwards for our country.
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Orser67
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« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2016, 08:09:00 PM »

I think you prioritize competence and personal rapport, but I don't think it's asking that much to have at least a couple blacks/Latinos/Asians and a few women. I don't think it should be that hard to find competent people who can also represent various American groups and make sure that the points of view of minorities are heard within the Trump Administration.
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Cassius
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« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2016, 09:10:28 PM »
« Edited: November 19, 2016, 09:16:26 PM by Cassius »

I don't really understand the argument that somehow by selecting minorities (and women) to hold cabinet posts that these people will 'represent the views of minorities and women' or 'bring the experience of minorities and women to the table'. I mean, first of all, minorities and women are not a hive mind who collectively adhere to a particular set of views or experiences, something borne out by the fact that each and every demographic group had a statistically significant split between the two main candidates, thus indicating division within these groups. People harp on about how much Hispanics and women hate Donald Trump, and I won't deny that overall he is not popular with the majority of those groups - nonetheless he garnered the supported of nearly 30% of Hispanics and over 40% of women, indicating that there is a sizeable constituency within both of those particular groups that aligns, to a certain extent, with his policies and values, and thus don't require a tokenistic representative to convey their 'views and experiences' to Trump. Of course, those are only the broadest of the broad definitions of certain groups - for example, Hispanics are, obviously, a very diverse group with diverging beliefs, histories and more recent experiences (descendants of Mexicans who have long term ancestry in the United States versus recent Mexican immigrants).

Leading on from this, the idea that one individual can somehow represent a whole class of people is rather curious. Let's take Ben Carson for example, had he agreed to be in Trump's cabinet. He's perfectly entitled to his own views, doubtless formed from his own unique experiences, but, given the black vote in the election, his views clearly do not chime with a substantial majority of the black community. How can someone represent a community if their own views run counter to what appears to be the general opinion in their own community? Indeed, this whole idea that somehow the appointment of one person of a particular gender, race, sexuality or whatever their particular 'label' happens to be to the cabinet suddenly means that people of their 'label' are 'represented' strikes me as rather patronising and tokenistic.

Furthermore, sure, Trump could try to select a cabinet which is more diverse, but on the other hand, given that by far the biggest base of support for Trump and the Republican party is in white America, of course the cabinet is going to be generally white, because there are far more qualified white Republicans who's views tally with Trump's to fill the posts in his cabinet. It's just a fact that cabinets will always be demographically out of balance because political parties are always demographically out of balance. If you take Obama's current cabinet, 4/16 (25%) of its members are black, a figure well above the proportion of the US population that is black.  44% come from an ethnic minority, again, well ahead of the 36% figure that it currently stands at. There are no American Asians in Obama's cabinet. The Obama cabinet does not 'represent' what America looks like in the slightest, and nor should it.

I'd also add an addendum, which is that if Trump does appoint minorities and women to his cabinet, then a large number of this forum's posters (and probably a fair few real life people as well) will start complaining about them being traitors/quislings/'Uncle Tom's'/'House Negroes or whatever, for serving in a Trump administration, and will definitely castigate them for supposed incompetence. It's basically a lose/lose situation for Trump; he appoints a nearly all white/white male cabinet and he'll be the big fat white supremacist; he appoints a cabinet with a number of prominent right-leaning minorities and women and they'll likely have the above epithets applied to them by a not insignificant number of people on the left.
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Hermit For Peace
hermit
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« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2016, 09:58:43 PM »

I don't really understand the argument that somehow by selecting minorities (and women) to hold cabinet posts that these people will 'represent the views of minorities and women' or 'bring the experience of minorities and women to the table'. I mean, first of all, minorities and women are not a hive mind who collectively adhere to a particular set of views or experiences, something borne out by the fact that each and every demographic group had a statistically significant split between the two main candidates, thus indicating division within these groups. People harp on about how much Hispanics and women hate Donald Trump, and I won't deny that overall he is not popular with the majority of those groups - nonetheless he garnered the supported of nearly 30% of Hispanics and over 40% of women, indicating that there is a sizeable constituency within both of those particular groups that aligns, to a certain extent, with his policies and values, and thus don't require a tokenistic representative to convey their 'views and experiences' to Trump. Of course, those are only the broadest of the broad definitions of certain groups - for example, Hispanics are, obviously, a very diverse group with diverging beliefs, histories and more recent experiences (descendants of Mexicans who have long term ancestry in the United States versus recent Mexican immigrants).

Leading on from this, the idea that one individual can somehow represent a whole class of people is rather curious. Let's take Ben Carson for example, had he agreed to be in Trump's cabinet. He's perfectly entitled to his own views, doubtless formed from his own unique experiences, but, given the black vote in the election, his views clearly do not chime with a substantial majority of the black community. How can someone represent a community if their own views run counter to what appears to be the general opinion in their own community? Indeed, this whole idea that somehow the appointment of one person of a particular gender, race, sexuality or whatever their particular 'label' happens to be to the cabinet suddenly means that people of their 'label' are 'represented' strikes me as rather patronising and tokenistic.

Furthermore, sure, Trump could try to select a cabinet which is more diverse, but on the other hand, given that by far the biggest base of support for Trump and the Republican party is in white America, of course the cabinet is going to be generally white, because there are far more qualified white Republicans who's views tally with Trump's to fill the posts in his cabinet. It's just a fact that cabinets will always be demographically out of balance because political parties are always demographically out of balance. If you take Obama's current cabinet, 4/16 (25%) of its members are black, a figure well above the proportion of the US population that is black.  44% come from an ethnic minority, again, well ahead of the 36% figure that it currently stands at. There are no American Asians in Obama's cabinet. The Obama cabinet does not 'represent' what America looks like in the slightest, and nor should it.

I'd also add an addendum, which is that if Trump does appoint minorities and women to his cabinet, then a large number of this forum's posters (and probably a fair few real life people as well) will start complaining about them being traitors/quislings/'Uncle Tom's'/'House Negroes or whatever, for serving in a Trump administration, and will definitely castigate them for supposed incompetence. It's basically a lose/lose situation for Trump; he appoints a nearly all white/white male cabinet and he'll be the big fat white supremacist; he appoints a cabinet with a number of prominent right-leaning minorities and women and they'll likely have the above epithets applied to them by a not insignificant number of people on the left.

Maybe it's not so much that females and/or minorities will "represent the views of (all) minorities and (all) women or bring the experience of minorities and women to the table", although who would better represent their interests than one of their numbers?

At any rate, maybe part of it has to do with the fact that when you include many females and minorities along with all the white males in your administration, people feel like a part of the process, part of government, that their needs and voices count.

When you exclude them, the perception is bad, it's alienating and people (potential voters) tune out. I tuned out politics until Hillary ran the first time. Then I felt that I had a say, a voice, an interest in the process because I could identify with her.

Sure you have a base you have to please, but there are millions more people in the country who are part of the country, and they need a voice, too.

Trump said in his acceptance speech that he wanted to be the President for ALL the people. Well, then, filling your cabinet with all white males is not going cut it.

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JJC
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« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2016, 10:30:46 PM »

So many people here aren't seeing why diversity is important. There are plenty of more-than-qualified women and minorities, selecting just white males shows that you don't care about representing all the American people.

Trump was elected on the basis that diversity is a overrated concept. So..

No, Trump was elected on the basis the selection by diversity is an overrated concept.

It's also racist and about us un-American as you can get.

People should be hired by their qualifications and work ethic, not because their skin pigmentation is slightly darker or because they have a vagina. This is not how America is supposed to work.
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2016, 10:39:10 PM »

So many people here aren't seeing why diversity is important. There are plenty of more-than-qualified women and minorities, selecting just white males shows that you don't care about representing all the American people.

Trump was elected on the basis that diversity is a overrated concept. So..

No, Trump was elected on the basis the selection by diversity is an overrated concept.

It's also racist and about us un-American as you can get.

People should be hired by their qualifications and work ethic, not because their skin pigmentation is slightly darker or because they have a vagina. This is not how America is supposed to work.

No, I repeat Trump was elected on the basis of diversity being an overrated concept.

The Alt-Right is a white nationalist group that backs him and he condones/accepts. Many of his supporters are white nationalists. These people believe quite ardently that white America is in decline and that they are being robbed of their cultural identity. Trump won their support through a series of implicit and explicit statements. Let's not beat around the bush about some of the motivations that propelled Trump supporters.

Do I agree picking someone because they're black or blue or whatever is stupid? Absolutely. Do I think that having a 100% white male cabinet or like, 90-100% is a good idea? No. Do I think that having a 100% black or brown cabinet is a good idea? No.

Do I think that presidents should strike a balance in their cabinet, picking people who share their ideology but are diverse? Yes. See: Bush, George Walker.
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AtorBoltox
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« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2016, 01:06:15 AM »

I love the assumption that there are no women or minorities qualified to be in the cabinet.
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angus
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« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2016, 07:54:41 PM »

I don't really understand the argument ...

It's a yankee thing, and it's morally fashionable at the moment.  Hopefully we'll get past it.  Much has been written about this phenomenon.  I posted this elsewhere, but it may be appropriate here as well. 

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« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2016, 03:19:30 AM »

No, Betsy Devos was chosen for Education secretary. Bushie may soon be hired for an *exciting* business opportunity selling Department of Education materials.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2016, 08:32:48 AM »

An all-white male cabinet would be kind of fishy, because non-Hispanic White males make up only about 30% of the entire U.S. population.

And no one can claim with a straight face that every single of the 75 million adult White males is more "qualified" to serve on the cabinet than every single of the 180 million adult females and adult non-Whites.

So, in that scenario the question must be asked why were are only White males hired for the cabinet.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2016, 09:58:54 AM »

No, Betsy Devos was chosen for Education secretary. Bushie may soon be hired for an *exciting* business opportunity selling Department of Education materials.

Is that the one where you get your friends to join the Department of Education, too? (And then they ship you overseas to fight and die for some Gulf State billionaire's right to treat women as chattel?)
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #64 on: November 25, 2016, 01:05:31 PM »

No, Betsy Devos was chosen for Education secretary. Bushie may soon be hired for an *exciting* business opportunity selling Department of Education materials.

Is that the one where you get your friends to join the Department of Education, too? (And then they ship you overseas to fight and die for some Gulf State billionaire's right to treat women as chattel?)

     I suspect the Department of Education is the wrong place for that kind of a scheme. Bushie will probably be stuck selling school supplies door to door.
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Storebought
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« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2016, 01:37:44 PM »

God, I hope so. Shame to the man or woman who volunteers to be the spook who sits by the door in any Trump occupation.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #66 on: November 25, 2016, 03:55:27 PM »

No, Betsy Devos was chosen for Education secretary. Bushie may soon be hired for an *exciting* business opportunity selling Department of Education materials.

Is that the one where you get your friends to join the Department of Education, too? (And then they ship you overseas to fight and die for some Gulf State billionaire's right to treat women as chattel?)
That is actually the military.
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Badger
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« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2016, 01:11:20 PM »

I love the assumption that there are no women or minorities qualified to be in the cabinet.

Thank You!
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mencken
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« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2016, 01:29:40 PM »

And no one can claim with a straight face that every single of the 75 million adult White males is more "qualified" to serve on the cabinet than every single of the 180 million adult females and adult non-Whites.

0001100001000000000100001101100000100001

A) Am I correct in observing that the last number of this sequence is 1?
B) Does this imply that every single one of the ten 1s in this sequence is later in the sequence than every single one of the thirty 0s in this sequence?
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2016, 08:43:14 AM »

Lol, more fantastic analysis totally not biased by blind hatred!
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I’m not Stu
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« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2016, 02:21:28 AM »

It doesn't matter whether a cabinet is all white males or not if they try to do a good job representing the country for everyone, not just favoring certain people.
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Beet
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« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2016, 02:25:49 AM »

Part of me wanted to see Trump appoint an all white male cabinet just to see the kvetching on the left. I'm sure most of them would probably prefer Lyndon Johnson's cabinet's to Trump's more diverse one anyway. And yes, white men are disproportionately qualified to take cabinet jobs because they're over-represented in business, government, and military. The 'problem' is there, not with Trump.
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Hermit For Peace
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« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2016, 05:24:15 PM »

Part of me wanted to see Trump appoint an all white male cabinet just to see the kvetching on the left. I'm sure most of them would probably prefer Lyndon Johnson's cabinet's to Trump's more diverse one anyway. And yes, white men are disproportionately qualified to take cabinet jobs because they're over-represented in business, government, and military. The 'problem' is there, not with Trump.

Just because white males have been dominant in these areas does not make the case for following suit when picking one's cabinet posts.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2016, 05:27:09 PM »

Part of me wanted to see Trump appoint an all white male cabinet just to see the kvetching on the left. I'm sure most of them would probably prefer Lyndon Johnson's cabinet's to Trump's more diverse one anyway. And yes, white men are disproportionately qualified to take cabinet jobs because they're over-represented in business, government, and military. The 'problem' is there, not with Trump.

 so now you're cucking for Donald too? that's especially sad
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wolfsblood07
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« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2016, 05:46:21 PM »

As long a they're competent, I don't care. They could be Quarians for all I care.

You must be a white male.

If so, if not.....there's a whole world of people out there of all colors and both sexes who are competent at doing their jobs. A cabinet of white males only does not represent America in all its depth and complexity.

And it's also a step backwards.
Diversity has nothing to do with what makes this country great.  How often is it said "Gosh, it's a good thing we had a diverse army on D-Day, or we might not have prevailed."  Or "If only we had been more diverse we might have prevented 9-11."
It could be argued that diversity is detrimental to peace and prosperity, but your liberal brain might explode so I won't go there.  Wink
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