HB 2016-1059 - Come Out of the Shadows Act (TO DA SENATE!)

[NeverAgain]

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Sponsor: Siren

I open this up for a 48 hourp period of debate.

[Enduro]

At first glance, this doesn't look bad. I may be missing something, though.

[Goldwater]

Yeah, this all looks good to me.

[Anna Komnene]

Yeah, I'm not afraid to admit that this bill was pretty hard to write, so if anyone has ideas or suggestions to make it better, I'm definitely all ears.

Generally, I think immigration reform with a path to citizenship is the right thing to do.  Thomas Aquinas argued in his political philosophy that the lives of people is more important than the letter of the law if the two conflict.  I agree with that, and I think our policy should be informed by a desire to improve the lives of everyone who lives here.  It's a matter of what kind of country do we want to live in?  Sure, we want to be secure, but not at the cost of people's lives.  We shouldn't be a country that tears families apart and dumps crying 5 year olds in an orphanage or sends people to waste away in a country they know nothing about.  We are much better than that.  Part of the reason I think Atlasia is such a successful country is that most everyone wants to live here and is proud to call themselves Atlasian.  That is incredibly important to the success of the country's economy.  We all contribute in our own way and by coming together we make life better for everyone else who lives here as well.  I was tempted to name this bill "A More Welcoming Atlasia Act" like Justice Yankee's campaign slogan but didn't want to step on any toes.  I think that's really what this is about though.  Being welcoming to all and prospering as a result.

[NeverAgain]

I think this is a wonderfully reasoned, and well thought-through bill. I do want to clarify that the $1B used for border security will be used over 5 years, so basically 200M a year for 5 years.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

The problem is making citizenship more streamlined. We need to take away the incentives for folks to come illegally. Not fining the undocumented immigrants under 16 I can understand. The fines need to be stiffer and paying back taxes before even applying before I will consider supporting this legislation.

[Anna Komnene]

The problem is making citizenship more streamlined. We need to take away the incentives for folks to come illegally. Not fining the undocumented immigrants under 16 I can understand. The fines need to be stiffer and paying back taxes before even applying before I will consider supporting this legislation.

I'm open to that.  I could add "and satisfy any applicable federal tax liability" to section 1-2c.  The only problem is that some undocumented people actually do pay taxes in various ways, but that would probably make sure the IRS puts some effort into finding that out.  How much stiffer are we talking for the fine?

My main worry with making the fine a lot higher would be a lot of people not being able to come up with that kind of money.

[NeverAgain]

The problem is making citizenship more streamlined. We need to take away the incentives for folks to come illegally. Not fining the undocumented immigrants under 16 I can understand. The fines need to be stiffer and paying back taxes before even applying before I will consider supporting this legislation.

If many of these people had the monetary ability to come here legally, don't you think they would do it? Making millions of people pay thousands of dollars and push them into poverty because they are "MUH ILLEGUL" is lunacy.

Ms. Siren's legislation incentivizes legal immigration and then helps boost productivity among immigrants who are currently "in the shadows", for which I see no vice for. I think if we push for a border policy that is much stronger and paid for, and that helps people enter our nation, instead of trying to do everything we can to push them away, we can create the diverse and productive nation we all want to see.

[Mike Thick]

I don't really see a problem with this.

[Anna Komnene]

We seem to have a bipartisan coalition here for the current bill which is awesome.  I'd like to make this amendment to hopefully help things along should the bill pass and make its way to the Senate.

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[NeverAgain]

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I propose this new amendment.

[Tyrion The Unbanned]

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Section 4, Article 4, Clause A seems toothless at the moment. It might be useful to flesh that out a bit. I'd suggest a fine for the employer of some sort, perhaps $10,000 per instance.

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Additionally, I would rather collect back-taxes than have any fine whatsoever. I would feel more comfortable if the tax liability payments were not due immediately, but rather amortized over a time period equivalent in length to the time period that the person was undocumented. Perhaps some sort of percentage fee at the end of that process would be preferable to an initial fine. Just my two cents.

[Anna Komnene]

I'm fine with the changes to section 4 and 5.  I think I'm fine with the change to section 3 (I'm not sure I understand it well enough to be sure).

I'd prefer to keep section 1 and 2 the way they were in the original bill though mostly because I'm concerned that it won't pass in the Senate with the changes and I think that the fine I proposed is a reasonable compromise for people who wish to have some sort of penalty like Senator JCL suggested in his post.  For section 2, I like having the requirement for either 2 years of college, military, or employment.  Most all of them will be doing that anyway and it's a good way to prove that they're contributing, so getting the new status feels more like something to be proud of rather than just given.  I think that a lot of the circumstances that might make it hard to do that like disabilities would be mitigated by the clause in section 1, exempting them.

I do like Tyrion's suggestion to make the payment due over a period of time though.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

I know this is a bit unorthodox with my being a Senator giving my input before it comes to the senate but balancing both the law and human interest situations was of a paramount priority to me.

[Anna Komnene]

I'd like to propose this amendment.  It keeps the changes Speaker NeverAgain made to sections 3, 4, and 5 but maintains most of the parts of sections 1 and 2, while incorporating some of Tyrion's suggestions regarding the fee for violating the enforcement system and allowing for a payment plan of the tax liabilities.  I also added an exemption in the dream requirements for people with disabilities and made a couple housekeeping changes.

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[NeverAgain]

Looks wonderful to me, as always, Ms. Siren.

[Blair]

Since this is my first time striding over to the hill I'd like to thank Siren for this bill- this is exactly what we need to work on in Atlasia.

More importantly we're approaching comprehensive immigration reform; this is one of the major issues for the nation; and I hope that all house members come to discuss this important issue. This is a vital piece, and huge piece of reform; and there's a lot to debate (this isn't some bill changing the name of a bridge )

[Santander]

This is the greatest affront to Atlasian values since slavery.

[Anna Komnene]

Are we ready to vote then?

[Mike Thick]

This is the greatest affront to Atlasian values since slavery.

If you're saying this, it must be good

[NeverAgain]

Yeah, voting sounds sexy. On this amended bill fyi.

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Kay, four-eight hours folks! Vote Aye (sane), Nay (HP), or Abstain (weenie-hut-jr.)

[Goldwater]

AYE (sane)

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

Aye (sane)

[NeverAgain]

Aye (sanest)

[Anna Komnene]

AYE