when will reilgous influence die on a politcal level?
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  when will reilgous influence die on a politcal level?
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Author Topic: when will reilgous influence die on a politcal level?  (Read 3050 times)
FDRfan1985
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« on: November 20, 2016, 01:02:24 AM »

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.
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Panda Express
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2016, 03:39:46 AM »

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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 06:57:10 AM »
« Edited: November 20, 2016, 07:15:39 AM by DC Al Fine »

Religious influence will never completely die out, but in the  sense you mean it, probably in the next 20-30 years.

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

So I am allowed to have ethics so long as I don't allow it to influence society? Good to know.
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 08:53:09 AM »

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

Yeah... If only the Church checked with the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee before it put anything out in an election year. Get real. And "spiritual" as a word means nothing.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 09:16:24 PM »

Religious influence will never completely die out, but in the  sense you mean it, probably in the next 20-30 years.

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

So I am allowed to have ethics so long as I don't allow it to influence society? Good to know.

^That's why religion will always have an influence on politics. Both, fundamentally, are statements about what the world is like and how it should be (statements in a different context, but still statements). Christianity seems like its on the decline right now, but that doesn't mean the country will be without religions, it just may have 330 million of them.
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 10:53:06 PM »

Religious influence will never completely die out, but in the  sense you mean it, probably in the next 20-30 years.

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

So I am allowed to have ethics so long as I don't allow it to influence society? Good to know.

^That's why religion will always have an influence on politics. Both, fundamentally, are statements about what the world is like and how it should be (statements in a different context, but still statements). Christianity seems like its on the decline right now, but that doesn't mean the country will be without religions, it just may have 330 million of them.

Pew projected that, while religion would be on the decline in the West (or whatever), there would be a greater number of religious people overall due to the increased population growth rates of the developing world. To this, a friend of mine asked "What about when they become developed as us?" I didn't have an answer for the aspiring Randist, but I forgot to reply that history isn't necessarily linear and perpetually doomed to march forward.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2016, 11:10:12 AM »

*tips fedora*
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2016, 12:17:53 PM »

Religious influence will never completely die out, but in the  sense you mean it, probably in the next 20-30 years.

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

So I am allowed to have ethics so long as I don't allow it to influence society? Good to know.

Well in an American context:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause

Though admittedly "society" and "the state" are not the same thing, but it's undeniable that certain religious groups in the US do their best to get state-sanctioned power on their side (and are often, successful - particularly at the state and local levels).

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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2016, 03:51:06 PM »

Never.

It's honestly pretty funny that Atlas is dreaming of some random future where atheistic (or Christian-In-Name-Only) norms are the only ones present in politics, while in the real world, Roe vs. Wade is set to die as soon as Ginsburg leaves SCOTUS.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2016, 06:02:24 PM »

What is this idea?

Religiosity in the US has moved on a sine wave curve for centuries now. We're at a low ebb, at the moment, sure. That just means it's a couple of years before the Sixth Great Awakening.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2016, 08:09:25 PM »

It's honestly pretty funny that Atlas is dreaming of some random future where atheistic (or Christian-In-Name-Only) norms are the only ones present in politics, while in the real world, Roe vs. Wade is set to die as soon as Ginsburg leaves SCOTUS.

You do remember that Kennedy was the author of the Planned Parenthood v. Casey decision, don't you?  While a shift of one justice might be enuf to have SCOTUS tinker some more with abortion, it'll take the replacement of at least two sitting justices to have Roe be fully overturned.
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2016, 08:52:40 PM »

It's honestly pretty funny that Atlas is dreaming of some random future where atheistic (or Christian-In-Name-Only) norms are the only ones present in politics, while in the real world, Roe vs. Wade is set to die as soon as Ginsburg leaves SCOTUS.

You do remember that Kennedy was the author of the Planned Parenthood v. Casey decision, don't you? 

So? Replace Scalia and Ginsburg with pro-lifers, and that plus Roberts, Alito, Thomas is 5 votes against Roe. Kennedy's vote doesn't matter.
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2016, 12:23:29 AM »

It's honestly pretty funny that Atlas is dreaming of some random future where atheistic (or Christian-In-Name-Only) norms are the only ones present in politics, while in the real world, Roe vs. Wade is set to die as soon as Ginsburg leaves SCOTUS.

You do remember that Kennedy was the author of the Planned Parenthood v. Casey decision, don't you? 

So? Replace Scalia and Ginsburg with pro-lifers, and that plus Roberts, Alito, Thomas is 5 votes against Roe. Kennedy's vote doesn't matter.

There's no solid evidence that Roberts or Alito would vote to overturn Roe. Just conjecture.

And even if they would, Trump will have a hard time getting one, much less two, justices confirmed that would join them. Assuming he even cares enough to try.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2016, 01:28:05 AM »
« Edited: November 26, 2016, 06:50:04 AM by True Federalist »

It's honestly pretty funny that Atlas is dreaming of some random future where atheistic (or Christian-In-Name-Only) norms are the only ones present in politics, while in the real world, Roe vs. Wade is set to die as soon as Ginsburg leaves SCOTUS.

You do remember that Kennedy was the author of the Planned Parenthood v. Casey decision, don't you?  

So? Replace Scalia and Ginsburg with pro-lifers, and that plus Roberts, Alito, Thomas is 5 votes against Roe. Kennedy's vote doesn't matter.

You really think that Roberts would seek to overturn Roe on a slender 5-4 ruling?  Roberts is conservative, not reactionary.  As would be the case with any established precedent, he's going to need something firmer than "I think abortion is bad" to overturn Roe completely.  The most Roberts would do is give cover to those who seek to indirectly ban abortion by overregulating it to death.

As for Alito, I'll grant that it was back when he was an appellate court judge, but he joined in a decision (Planned Parenthood of Central N.J. v. Farmer (3d Circuit 2000)) finding New Jersey's Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 1997 to be unconstitutional. So I think he too is going to be in the camp of needing something more than just "abortion is bad" to overturn Roe.

Were Roe not already part of the law of the land, both justices certainly would not vote to find a previously undiscovered right to an abortion, but it is part of the law of the land and while both will likely vote to uphold restrictions, that's not the same as overturning.
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2016, 02:26:25 AM »

^ Sure, I'll grant that there's like a 20% chance that Roberts could be persuaded to uphold Roe, but Alito would never even consider it. The guy is a conservative rubber stamp.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2016, 11:48:46 AM »

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

Yeah... If only the Church checked with the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee before it put anything out in an election year. Get real. And "spiritual" as a word means nothing.

Maybe not to you crazy Catholics. Smiley

Anyway, the answer is obviously never.
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Kytax
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2016, 12:34:59 PM »

It all depends on how developed the US is in the future, hopefully we'd be able to make the first secular nation secular again.
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« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2016, 01:15:23 PM »

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

Yeah... If only the Church checked with the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee before it put anything out in an election year. Get real. And "spiritual" as a word means nothing.

Maybe not to you crazy Catholics. Smiley

Anyway, the answer is obviously never.

Obviously, I meant in the context of that God-awful sentence. What, possibly, could "spiritual, but not religious," mean outside of some half-baked cop out for the extremely shallow? I suppose my routine skipping of mass doesn't make me a hypocrite, it just makes me "spiritual".
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The Mikado
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« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2016, 06:11:33 PM »

What is this idea?

Religiosity in the US has moved on a sine wave curve for centuries now. We're at a low ebb, at the moment, sure. That just means it's a couple of years before the Sixth Great Awakening.

Remember I said this.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2016, 09:03:08 PM »

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

Yeah... If only the Church checked with the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee before it put anything out in an election year. Get real. And "spiritual" as a word means nothing.

Maybe not to you crazy Catholics. Smiley

Anyway, the answer is obviously never.

Obviously, I meant in the context of that God-awful sentence. What, possibly, could "spiritual, but not religious," mean outside of some half-baked cop out for the extremely shallow? I suppose my routine skipping of mass doesn't make me a hypocrite, it just makes me "spiritual".

Cathcon, you're part of a vanishing breed; Catholics who know they are bad Catholics rather than insisting they are good Catholics or abandoning the faith altogether.
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FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
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« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2016, 09:26:05 PM »

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

Yeah... If only the Church checked with the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee before it put anything out in an election year. Get real. And "spiritual" as a word means nothing.

Maybe not to you crazy Catholics. Smiley

Anyway, the answer is obviously never.

Obviously, I meant in the context of that God-awful sentence. What, possibly, could "spiritual, but not religious," mean outside of some half-baked cop out for the extremely shallow? I suppose my routine skipping of mass doesn't make me a hypocrite, it just makes me "spiritual".

Cathcon, you're part of a vanishing breed; Catholics who know they are bad Catholics rather than insisting they are good Catholics or abandoning the faith altogether.

I'm intensely self-critical and, simultaneously, for personal reasons would likely never entirely disavow the Church, thus my current status.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2016, 12:59:42 PM »

I'm a spiritual person, but it disgusts me how religion tries to influence government policy in a regressive way.

Yeah... If only the Church checked with the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee before it put anything out in an election year. Get real. And "spiritual" as a word means nothing.

Maybe not to you crazy Catholics. Smiley

Anyway, the answer is obviously never.

Obviously, I meant in the context of that God-awful sentence. What, possibly, could "spiritual, but not religious," mean outside of some half-baked cop out for the extremely shallow? I suppose my routine skipping of mass doesn't make me a hypocrite, it just makes me "spiritual".

Cathcon, you're part of a vanishing breed; Catholics who know they are bad Catholics rather than insisting they are good Catholics or abandoning the faith altogether.

I'm intensely self-critical and, simultaneously, for personal reasons would likely never entirely disavow the Church, thus my current status.

We won't reach much common ground on this, my brother.  Lutheranism was the first to break off, and it very, very, very defiantly rejects the concept that guilt should play any role in your religious beliefs or practices.  There's no such thing as being a "bad Lutheran," as we believe that God gave us grace through faith and not through good works, and anyone who would commit expressly bad works and not seek forgiveness from (what we believe to be) a perfect and ever-forgiving (only for true remorse, of course) God would not have true faith in the first place.  Or something like that ... missed Easter last year.

As for "spiritual but not religious," for me it is something not to overthink about and simply describes someone who does not identify with a major religion but believes in a higher consciousness and creator that ties the Universe together.  Some people become sticklers about scripture and dogma, but I have no problem calling such a thing God or believing that this being is the ACTUAL God that we have made many failed attempts to describe through allegory and religion.
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Young Conservative
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2016, 08:22:12 PM »

Never.

It's honestly pretty funny that Atlas is dreaming of some random future where atheistic (or Christian-In-Name-Only) norms are the only ones present in politics, while in the real world, Roe vs. Wade is set to die as soon as Ginsburg leaves SCOTUS.
ProLife opposition to Roe V. Wade has nothing to do with religion.
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RFayette
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2016, 09:31:23 PM »

Never.

It's honestly pretty funny that Atlas is dreaming of some random future where atheistic (or Christian-In-Name-Only) norms are the only ones present in politics, while in the real world, Roe vs. Wade is set to die as soon as Ginsburg leaves SCOTUS.
ProLife opposition to Roe V. Wade has nothing to do with religion.

Yes it does, at least for many of us. 
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RI
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2016, 11:21:54 PM »

Never.

It's honestly pretty funny that Atlas is dreaming of some random future where atheistic (or Christian-In-Name-Only) norms are the only ones present in politics, while in the real world, Roe vs. Wade is set to die as soon as Ginsburg leaves SCOTUS.
ProLife opposition to Roe V. Wade has nothing to do with religion.

Yes it does, at least for many of us. 

I know of a number of pro-life atheists and used to be one myself. If anything, the pro-life position comes more naturally under an atheistic worldview than a Christian one.
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