The ascending demagogues

[Person Man]

What happens when the likes of Trump, Modi, Putin, Dueterte, and Erdogan are joined by Hofer, LePen, et al?

Is this the start of an era of world peace where a handful of strongmen collude and crave up the world amoungst their empires or do they start stabbing eachother in the back once they realise that they don't have the resources or prestige to continue as hermit kingdoms?

[ApatheticAustrian]

as long as they have common enemies they stick together.

i suspect this is long-term moscow-planning but erdogan and putin found common ground again very fast after the russian aircraft was downed.

i guess, if germany and the broader, liberal EU are crushed too, on an ideological level, they are going to form new alliances....i wonder how china is going to be a part of this picture.

[Person Man]

That's what I have been thinking about too. China is an illiberal state like the rest of these states but they are anti-nationalist and anti-clerical, too. They are ascendant while this authoritarian axis on thier own are in decline seperately. The ideology behind the states might give China long run technoligical, industrial, and military advantages as their non-western form of authoritarianism isn't really constrained by anti-intellectualism.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Lol.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

China is  anti-nationalist

LEL

[Person Man]

China is  anti-nationalist

LEL

Well, Nationalist in a Western sense.

But it is kind of silly how no one is really thinking about the long-term ramifications of the decline of Liberal Democracy.

[ApatheticAustrian]

somehow the republican talking point is something like...

- OBAMA WAS A WEAK, APOLOGIZING DICTATOR

which means....

- NOW WE CAN INSTALL OUR OWN AUTHORITARIAN TOO

sounds somehow...not very convincing.

[PresidentSamTilden]

But it is kind of silly how no one is really thinking about the long-term ramifications of the decline of Liberal Democracy.

I think a big part of it is that there is just so much uncertainty. Has liberal democracy truely declined (probably), or just shifted? What is Trump going to do? What will happen with Brexit? Is the EU finished?

It's just tough to look at all these events and draw any conclusions right now. Personally, I'm still suprised at what's happening, and quite frankly, at a loss for any easy explination of why.

[OSR stands with Israel]

What happens when the likes of Trump, Modi, Putin, Dueterte, and Erdogan are joined by Hofer, LePen, et al?

Is this the start of an era of world peace where a handful of strongmen collude and crave up the world amoungst their empires or do they start stabbing eachother in the back once they realise that they don't have the resources or prestige to continue as hermit kingdoms?

Modi = India's Reagan not Trump.

He would fit in this time much better: Reagan, Thatcher, Modi

[Person Man]

But it is kind of silly how no one is really thinking about the long-term ramifications of the decline of Liberal Democracy.

I think a big part of it is that there is just so much uncertainty. Has liberal democracy truely declined (probably), or just shifted? What is Trump going to do? What will happen with Brexit? Is the EU finished?

It's just tough to look at all these events and draw any conclusions right now. Personally, I'm still suprised at what's happening, and quite frankly, at a loss for any easy explination of why.

And what happens if democracy has declined? Dies it come back?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

China is  anti-nationalist

LEL

Well, Nationalist in a Western sense.

But it is kind of silly how no one is really thinking about the long-term ramifications of the decline of Liberal Democracy.

It's hard to see, far less understand, ocean chemistry changing or even whole oceans drying up, when you're just a fish swimming around with the other fish in the Caribbean (for example).

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

What happens when the likes of Trump, Modi, Putin, Dueterte, and Erdogan are joined by Hofer, LePen, et al?

Is this the start of an era of world peace where a handful of strongmen collude and crave up the world amoungst their empires or do they start stabbing eachother in the back once they realise that they don't have the resources or prestige to continue as hermit kingdoms?

Modi = India's Reagan not Trump.

He would fit in this time much better: Reagan, Thatcher, Modi

Abki Baar Trump Sarkar

Modi became our number one ally thanks to the election results.

[PresidentSamTilden]

And what happens if democracy has declined? Dies it come back?

Idk. It just seems like people aren't "into" liberal democracy right now, lol. Democracy is incompatible with hate, fear, and apathy, they break the system.

In Russia this year, voter turnout was 16% in St Petersburg, 20% in Moscow. If people actually cared and demanded their votes be counted, these municipalities could possibly throw Putin out on his ass by themselves. For whatever reason though, they don't.

So in a sense, it is kind of the responsibility of the electorate to protect itself. Maybe people will eventually wake the F up and reverse the trend. But it's not looking likely in the near term IMO.

[Person Man]

And what happens if democracy has declined? Dies it come back?

Idk. It just seems like people aren't "into" liberal democracy right now, lol. Democracy is incompatible with hate, fear, and apathy, they break the system.

In Russia this year, voter turnout was 16% in St Petersburg, 20% in Moscow. If people actually cared and demanded their votes be counted, these municipalities could possibly throw Putin out on his ass by themselves. For whatever reason though, they don't.

So in a sense, it is kind of the responsibility of the electorate to protect itself. Maybe people will eventually wake the F up and reverse the trend. But it's not looking likely in the near term IMO.

Have to wait for them to mess up?

What happens when the likes of Trump, Modi, Putin, Dueterte, and Erdogan are joined by Hofer, LePen, et al?

Is this the start of an era of world peace where a handful of strongmen collude and crave up the world amoungst their empires or do they start stabbing eachother in the back once they realise that they don't have the resources or prestige to continue as hermit kingdoms?

Modi = India's Reagan not Trump.

He would fit in this time much better: Reagan, Thatcher, Modi

Abki Baar Trump Sarkar

Modi became our number one ally thanks to the election results.

Which is good if Trump really wants a fight with China on trade.

[PresidentSamTilden]

Have to wait for them to mess up?

Pretty much, or for conditions to change in some way that unites and excites people again.

[ApatheticAustrian]

besides the fact that the vote counting is quite.... "original" ...especially in the russian hinterlands....anti-establishment candidates are most of the time not even on the ballot, the vote threshold is ridiculous and the only parties who are usually able to enter the parliament are part of the system (united russia/ a just russia/ liberal democrats) or the classical communists, who cooperate with the new national-conservatism on a couple of projects.

and ofc most russians...even those who don't like putin very much....think that the opposition is even worse.

[Person Man]

Have to wait for them to mess up?

Pretty much, or for conditions to change in some way that unites and excites people again.

There's been worse global crises in the future of constitutionalism, I THINK.