Clinton electors lobbying for EC protest votes? *UPDATE* 29 electors want intel briefing

[Nym90]

It makes sense that the 538 people who choose the President of the United States should know before casting that vote the extent of the involvement of one of the candidates in any efforts to hack the Election Day vote.

[SteveRogers]

How is something like that even possible? Every state should have laws against faithless electors and only the most loyal partisans should be chosen as electors.

This. We need to avoid crazy situations like what we may see later this month.
the electors need to be bound.

The whole point of the electoral college was to act as a check on the people, who have proven this year that they cannot be trusted in terms of choosing a president. If the founders didn't want the electors to be free to be faithless, they would have made the EC simply a numerical count, not an actual group of people. We need to respect the will of the founders, take all faithless elector laws off the books, and let the electors live up to their real job - acting as a check on a populace filled with low-information voters.

That might have been the intent of the founders, but within three elections they had figured out that it didn't work that way, and they amended the Constitution after the fourth.

If you're referring to the 12th amendment, that addressed a wholly different problem with the electoral college by separating the votes for president and Vice President. But electors continued to be unbound by any popular vote in many states for quite some time after.

Nonsense!!!

Do you think 73 electors in nine different states just happened to put Jefferson and Burr on their ballots, and 64 other electors in ten different states just happened to put Adams and Pinckney on their ballots?

NOPE. 73 electors who belonged to Party A voted for Jefferson and Burr. 64 electors who belonged to Party B voted for Adams and Pinckney.

I'm not sure what point you think you're making. Can you clarify?

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

While I want to honor Clinton's request to enter the Trump Presidency with an open mind, the man is making it harder to do that every day. If I was an elector, I honestly think I would write in Kasich at this point. The actual EC should do the same.

[The Other Castro]

All Russian hacking talk is strictly non-election rigging stuff right? As in they selectively hacked and leaked info, but didn't engage in actual vote manipulation to directly affect the outcome.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

While I want to honor Clinton's request to enter the Trump Presidency with an open mind, the man is making it harder to do that every day. If I was an elector, I honestly think I would write in Kasich at this point. The actual EC should do the same.

Good thing you're not an elector, then.

Give yourself a few months, and you'll probably want to impeach Trump. He's going to disappoint essentially every single american, including his most enthusiastic supporters. Look for his approvals to be worse than Christie's by the end of 2017 at the very latest.

[Fusionmunster]

While I want to honor Clinton's request to enter the Trump Presidency with an open mind, the man is making it harder to do that every day. If I was an elector, I honestly think I would write in Kasich at this point. The actual EC should do the same.

Good thing you're not an elector, then.

Give yourself a few months, and you'll probably want to impeach Trump. He's going to disappoint essentially every single american, including his most enthusiastic supporters. Look for his approvals to be worse than Christie's by the end of 2017 at the very latest.

Another confident prediction that Trump is doomed? We've had so many of these this year...

You've got to admit, Trump's cabinet choices and behavior towards the CIA has not inspired confidence.

[Nym90]

All Russian hacking talk is strictly non-election rigging stuff right? As in they selectively hacked and leaked info, but didn't engage in actual vote manipulation to directly affect the outcome.

So far as we know to this point, that is correct.

[SirMuxALot]

All Russian hacking talk is strictly non-election rigging stuff right? As in they selectively hacked and leaked info, but didn't engage in actual vote manipulation to directly affect the outcome.

This is a key point.  Actual vote-count affecting hacking is worthy of thorough investigations.  Luckily we've seen no evidence of that so far.

Russians throwing their voice into the cacophonous noise of an election...meh, so what?  Is there something inherently threatening about Russian fake news than say, John Harwood's fake news?

But all of this talk has a sub-text of elitism that is so typical of the left.  "Voters are too stupid and easily swayed by Russian propaganda...therefore we must discredit or possibly overturn the election, because we're smart and the sheeple are dumb."  Well, remember the videos circulating of the Obama voters who thought dumb things (he's gonna pay my rent...from his 'stash')?  Did even one Republican suggest we need to get information to the electoral college about how so many Obama voters got misinformed in '08?

This whole line of thinking is poisonous.  Democrat projection ("Republicans won't accept legitimate election results!  Horrors!") all over again.

[zorkpolitics]

I assume the EC electors who want a briefing are willing to wait for a background check, which is required before getting access to intelligence data...

[Nym90]

All Russian hacking talk is strictly non-election rigging stuff right? As in they selectively hacked and leaked info, but didn't engage in actual vote manipulation to directly affect the outcome.

This is a key point.  Actual vote-count affecting hacking is worthy of thorough investigations.  Luckily we've seen no evidence of that so far.

Russians throwing their voice into the cacophonous noise of an election...meh, so what?  Is there something inherently threatening about Russian fake news than say, John Harwood's fake news?

But all of this talk has a sub-text of elitism that is so typical of the left.  "Voters are too stupid and easily swayed by Russian propaganda...therefore we must discredit or possibly overturn the election, because we're smart and the sheeple are dumb."  Well, remember the videos circulating of the Obama voters who thought dumb things (he's gonna pay my rent...from his 'stash')?  Did even one Republican suggest we need to get information to the electoral college about how so many Obama voters got misinformed in '08?

This whole line of thinking is poisonous.  Democrat projection ("Republicans won't accept legitimate election results!  Horrors!") all over again.

We don't know the full extent of Russian involvement as of yet.

Now that it's known that hacking was accomplished, the next question is how, and from whom they had coordination/assistance.

Any Americans who were complicit in their hacking are pretty clearly guilty of treason.

It may well bring back the old Nixon era question of what did the President know, and when did he know it.

[Pragmatic Conservative]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/310089-federal-judge-blocks-motion-in-colorado-elector-lawsuit

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[Mr. Morden]

Russians throwing their voice into the cacophonous noise of an election...meh, so what?  Is there something inherently threatening about Russian fake news than say, John Harwood's fake news?

Hacking into the computers of American politicians and releasing material taken from those hacks is simply "throwing their voice into the cacophonous noise of an election"?

[ApatheticAustrian]

All Russian hacking talk is strictly non-election rigging stuff right? As in they selectively hacked and leaked info, but didn't engage in actual vote manipulation to directly affect the outcome.

Russians throwing their voice into the cacophonous noise of an election...meh, so what?  Is there something inherently threatening about Russian fake news than say, John Harwood's fake news?

according to the founding fathers, yes.

[jimrtex]

Some of the electors want an intelligence briefing about Trump’s ties to Russia:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electors-intelligence-briefing-trump-russia-232498

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Suprun is the only Republican elector to sign.

How do we know that those presidential electors are not Soviet agents, planted into the system to cause chaos?

[mistertheplague]

All Russian hacking talk is strictly non-election rigging stuff right? As in they selectively hacked and leaked info, but didn't engage in actual vote manipulation to directly affect the outcome.

This is a key point.  Actual vote-count affecting hacking is worthy of thorough investigations.  Luckily we've seen no evidence of that so far.

Russians throwing their voice into the cacophonous noise of an election...meh, so what?  Is there something inherently threatening about Russian fake news than say, John Harwood's fake news?

But all of this talk has a sub-text of elitism that is so typical of the left.  "Voters are too stupid and easily swayed by Russian propaganda...therefore we must discredit or possibly overturn the election, because we're smart and the sheeple are dumb."  Well, remember the videos circulating of the Obama voters who thought dumb things (he's gonna pay my rent...from his 'stash')?  Did even one Republican suggest we need to get information to the electoral college about how so many Obama voters got misinformed in '08?

This whole line of thinking is poisonous.  Democrat projection ("Republicans won't accept legitimate election results!  Horrors!") all over again.

So, the Russians hacked the DNC and the RNC. They only aired the DNC's dirty laundry. Trump is going to nominate Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State.

You're saying all of this doesn't bother you, am I getting that right?

[jimrtex]

How is something like that even possible? Every state should have laws against faithless electors and only the most loyal partisans should be chosen as electors.

This. We need to avoid crazy situations like what we may see later this month.
the electors need to be bound.

The whole point of the electoral college was to act as a check on the people, who have proven this year that they cannot be trusted in terms of choosing a president. If the founders didn't want the electors to be free to be faithless, they would have made the EC simply a numerical count, not an actual group of people. We need to respect the will of the founders, take all faithless elector laws off the books, and let the electors live up to their real job - acting as a check on a populace filled with low-information voters.

That might have been the intent of the founders, but within three elections they had figured out that it didn't work that way, and they amended the Constitution after the fourth.

If you're referring to the 12th amendment, that addressed a wholly different problem with the electoral college by separating the votes for president and Vice President. But electors continued to be unbound by any popular vote in many states for quite some time after.

Nonsense!!!

Do you think 73 electors in nine different states just happened to put Jefferson and Burr on their ballots, and 64 other electors in ten different states just happened to put Adams and Pinckney on their ballots?

NOPE. 73 electors who belonged to Party A voted for Jefferson and Burr. 64 electors who belonged to Party B voted for Adams and Pinckney.

I'm not sure what point you think you're making. Can you clarify?

The Federalist Papers were propaganda. If some other method had been chosen, Hamilton would have argued for that scheme being near perfection. Hamilton was a delegate to the Constitutional Convention, but was absent much of the time. It's not like he shepherded the electoral college through the convention.

We can not know whether Hamilton actually believed that electoral college should, would, or could act in the way that he described.

By the 1796 election two political factions had formed, but because of incomplete coordination by these supposedly independent meetings in the 16  States, Adams and Jefferson were elected President and Vice-President. Some Federalists did not vote for Thomas Pinckney out of fear that Jeffersonians would also vote for Pinckney and cost Adams the election.

By 1800, the parties had become more coordinated. 73 electors voted for Jefferson and Burr. 64 electors voted for Adams and Pinckney. One voted for Adams and John Jay. In Maryland electors were popularly elected by electoral district. The five from the south went to Annapolis and voted for Jefferson and Burr, the five from Baltimore and the north went to Annapolis and voted for Adams and Jay. It would be utterly absurd to claim that they were not voting in a predetermined partisan manner.

Because Jefferson and Burr were tied, the election of president went to the lame duck House of Representatives, where Federalists (party of Hamilton) attempted to elect Burr as President.

The reason for the 12th Amendment was because the system that Hamilton had argued for less than two decades earlier did not work. It was not a deliberative body. Hamilton actively campaigned for Adams/Pinckney electors to be chosen by legislatures or popular election. As you might remember, 1800 was the low point in appointment by popular election of electors.

Hamilton then actively worked to prevent Federalist representatives from choosing Burr.

Hamilton himself proposed a version of the 12th Amendment that would have provided for popular election of the electors from electoral districts, who would then vote for a president and vice-president.

Hamilton knew the electors did not meet and deliberate, he had campaigned for the appointment of electors who would vote for the candidates of his party. He might have been dismayed that the New York legislature had appointed 12 Jefferson+Burr electors, and thus sought popular election, which would likely peeled off at least some electors for the Federalist.

By that time, parties were campaigning for US representatives. It is ridiculous to think that voters in similar areas to congressional districts would not vote for electors based on party.

It is without merit to interpret the electoral college based on arguments of Hamilton in the Federalist. Experience and reality showed that it did not work. The 12th Amendment was an effort to better align the selection of the president and vice president with reality. Hamilton recognize that Article II version was neither perfect or even excellent.

(Note I am not suggesting that you would make utterly absurd claims or have ridiculous thinking, but that someone who ignores the 12th Amendment, and the reasons for its passage, and clings to the Federalist is engaging in wishful and ahistorical thought).

[Mr. Morden]

There are now 29 electors who want an intelligence briefing....but Suprun is still the only Republican among them:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-members-intel-briefing-232554

[EnglishPete]

There are now 29 electors who want an intelligence briefing....but Suprun is still the only Republican among them:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-members-intel-briefing-232554

Oh dear. Looks like someone's been a VERY faithless elector LOL

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http://gotnews.com/exposed-anti-trump-faithless-elector-thechrissuprun-paid-ashley-madison-bankrupt-married-w-3-kids/

[Bigby]

There are now 29 electors who want an intelligence briefing....but Suprun is still the only Republican among them:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-members-intel-briefing-232554

Oh dear. Looks like someone's been a VERY faithless elector LOL

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://gotnews.com/exposed-anti-trump-faithless-elector-thechrissuprun-paid-ashley-madison-bankrupt-married-w-3-kids/

Ah, Ashley Madison, the site that's all loser cheater men without a single actual woman on it!

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Giving intel briefing to a bunch of private citizens?

[krazen1211]

While I want to honor Clinton's request to enter the Trump Presidency with an open mind, the man is making it harder to do that every day. If I was an elector, I honestly think I would write in Kasich at this point. The actual EC should do the same.

Good thing you're not an elector, then.

If the liberals wanted Romney, they had a chance to vote for Romney 4 years ago.

[ApatheticAustrian]

If the liberals wanted Romney, they had a chance to vote for Romney 4 years ago.

supply and demand.

[hopper]

All Russian hacking talk is strictly non-election rigging stuff right? As in they selectively hacked and leaked info, but didn't engage in actual vote manipulation to directly affect the outcome.

This is a key point.  Actual vote-count affecting hacking is worthy of thorough investigations.  Luckily we've seen no evidence of that so far.

Russians throwing their voice into the cacophonous noise of an election...meh, so what?  Is there something inherently threatening about Russian fake news than say, John Harwood's fake news?

But all of this talk has a sub-text of elitism that is so typical of the left.  "Voters are too stupid and easily swayed by Russian propaganda...therefore we must discredit or possibly overturn the election, because we're smart and the sheeple are dumb."  Well, remember the videos circulating of the Obama voters who thought dumb things (he's gonna pay my rent...from his 'stash')?  Did even one Republican suggest we need to get information to the electoral college about how so many Obama voters got misinformed in '08?

This whole line of thinking is poisonous.  Democrat projection ("Republicans won't accept legitimate election results!  Horrors!") all over again.

So, the Russians hacked the DNC and the RNC. They only aired the DNC's dirty laundry. Trump is going to nominate Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State.

You're saying all of this doesn't bother you, am I getting that right?

So they aired the DNC's dirty laundry that was in October and Dems didn't seem to care then. Why care now? Because  they lost the election that's why.

I am not for the Tillerson nomination but Trump is the President-Elect he can nominate who he wants for Secretary Of State.

[hopper]

While I want to honor Clinton's request to enter the Trump Presidency with an open mind, the man is making it harder to do that every day. If I was an elector, I honestly think I would write in Kasich at this point. The actual EC should do the same.

Good thing you're not an elector, then.

If the liberals wanted Romney, they had a chance to vote for Romney 4 years ago.

The thing is a Romney Presidency would be a lot less scarier to Liberals than a Trump Presidency is going to be for them. For example, if a top-two tier election happened(which it won't)  between Romney and Trump liberals would go for Romney.

[hopper]

There are now 29 electors who want an intelligence briefing....but Suprun is still the only Republican among them:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-members-intel-briefing-232554

There needs to be only 30 Electoral Defections for another redo of the 2016 Presidential Election in 2017 or 2018 right?