Paradox: the left, the right and the islam

[buritobr]

Usually, the left doesn't like too strong criticism on Islam in order to not look like xenophobic, anti-immigrant, and in order to show tolerance to different cultures. However, many muslim leaders don't share the same values of the left. Muslim leaders and the left do not have the same views on secularism, women's rights and LGBT rights.
The right is more willing to attack Islam because the right thinks that the West should be Christian. But the right and the muslim leaders share many views on social issues.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

oh

[Murica!]

maks y thnk

[NeverAgain]

I am more than willing to call out the Saudis or those in African nations for their homophobic, sexist, and generally awful practices, but calling out an entire religion (including 3 million American muslims) for these actions is wholeheartedly ridiculous.

Do the actions of the KKK demand the apologies of every Christian? Does an awful action taken by Israel require the acknowledgement and having every Jewish leader speak out? No.

This is not the 'PC Police' or just 'Liberal Apologists', this is us coming together, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, everyone, against the forces of hate and evil. Calling out an entire religion, for actions of those whom they most obviously despise, hurts our ability to work together and that is why we liberals stand with the Muslim community.

[Pericles]

I am more than willing to call out the Saudis or those in African nations for their homophobic, sexist, and generally awful practices, but calling out an entire religion (including 3 million American muslims) for these actions is wholeheartedly ridiculous.

Do the actions of the KKK demand the apologies of every Christian? Does an awful action taken by Israel require the acknowledgement and having every Jewish leader speak out? No.

This is not the 'PC Police' or just 'Liberal Apologists', this is us coming together, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, everyone, against the forces of hate and evil. Calling out an entire religion, for actions of those whom they most obviously despise, hurts our ability to work together and that is why we liberals stand with the Muslim community.

[I’m not Stu]

I do see that.

[Person Man]

Why do you think Erdogan is sticking up for Trump over mundane internal matters? Sure, Trump hates Muslims, but he respects them as ideological kindred spirits. Same thing can be said of Hitler and Tojo.

[angus]

Usually, the left doesn't like too strong criticism on Islam in order to not look like xenophobic, anti-immigrant, and in order to show tolerance to different cultures...

This idea has been around for a long time and it is not paradoxical, nor is it the property of The Left.

   "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
                 Evelyn Beatrice Hall, 1906 (paraphrasing Voltaire)

Moreover, I think you are attempting to conflate several different phenomena:  Religiosity, religious pluralism, immigration reform, xenophobia, gay rights, and gender equality are distinct concepts with different champions and different detractors. 

[All Along The Watchtower]

Who or what is "the islam" and why is there only one of him/her/it?

[Associate Justice PiT]

I am more than willing to call out the Saudis or those in African nations for their homophobic, sexist, and generally awful practices, but calling out an entire religion (including 3 million American muslims) for these actions is wholeheartedly ridiculous.

Do the actions of the KKK demand the apologies of every Christian? Does an awful action taken by Israel require the acknowledgement and having every Jewish leader speak out? No.

This is not the 'PC Police' or just 'Liberal Apologists', this is us coming together, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, everyone, against the forces of hate and evil. Calling out an entire religion, for actions of those whom they most obviously despise, hurts our ability to work together and that is why we liberals stand with the Muslim community.

     The thing is, there is an actual tendency to cover for and temper criticism of widespread criminality among migrants in Europe. This tendency benefits nobody, as the observation that the mainstream establishment has abandoned them is causing people to turn to the far-right in desperation.

[NeverAgain]

I am more than willing to call out the Saudis or those in African nations for their homophobic, sexist, and generally awful practices, but calling out an entire religion (including 3 million American muslims) for these actions is wholeheartedly ridiculous.

Do the actions of the KKK demand the apologies of every Christian? Does an awful action taken by Israel require the acknowledgement and having every Jewish leader speak out? No.

This is not the 'PC Police' or just 'Liberal Apologists', this is us coming together, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, everyone, against the forces of hate and evil. Calling out an entire religion, for actions of those whom they most obviously despise, hurts our ability to work together and that is why we liberals stand with the Muslim community.

     The thing is, there is an actual tendency to cover for and temper criticism of widespread criminality among migrants in Europe. This tendency benefits nobody, as the observation that the mainstream establishment has abandoned them is causing people to turn to the far-right in desperation.

The refusal of the "left" to attack those Muslims who are currently living in our nation and stand up each and every day for our values is what we are speaking about here. The refugee problem in Europe is an entirely different issue altogether. I do not know what "widespread criminality among migrants" who speak of. I assume you could point to the awful New Year's sexual assault attacks in Germany, in which there were 24 rapes, and numerous cases of crimes and attacks on thousands of both citizens of Germany and immigrants.

The suspected 153 perpetrators, 103 of them who are not even from places where the refugee crisis is occurring (they are from Morrocco and Algeria). 68 of them were asylum seekers, and 18 were completely illegally in the nation. 4 of the 153 were German citizens, and the rest of the 47's nationality are unknown.

I do not know of anyone that would defend such awful and heinous actions. But it must be our job, as citizens and enlightened people, to understand them and the rationale for them, not just become reactionaries who are afraid to even allow a single refugee in our nation on the basis of their religion. (not saying you are saying that, but referencing those that do say it in the far-right European nations experiencing this problem).

Also, I completely think we need to continue to screen those that enter our nation as refugees. We have a 2-year long screening system, which favors women and children rather than adult men.

Anyways, in conclusion, I do not know of anyone who would defend any of these actions, and if they do they are entirely wrong and do not represent the opinion of what I know to be the "left". We have to understand these people and help them assimilate to our culture, instead of entirely pushing them away to such awful living conditions as are where they come from.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I am more than willing to call out the Saudis or those in African nations for their homophobic, sexist, and generally awful practices, but calling out an entire religion (including 3 million American muslims) for these actions is wholeheartedly ridiculous.

Do the actions of the KKK demand the apologies of every Christian? Does an awful action taken by Israel require the acknowledgement and having every Jewish leader speak out? No.

This is not the 'PC Police' or just 'Liberal Apologists', this is us coming together, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, everyone, against the forces of hate and evil. Calling out an entire religion, for actions of those whom they most obviously despise, hurts our ability to work together and that is why we liberals stand with the Muslim community.

     The thing is, there is an actual tendency to cover for and temper criticism of widespread criminality among migrants in Europe. This tendency benefits nobody, as the observation that the mainstream establishment has abandoned them is causing people to turn to the far-right in desperation.

The refusal of the "left" to attack those Muslims who are currently living in our nation and stand up each and every day for our values is what we are speaking about here. The refugee problem in Europe is an entirely different issue altogether. I do not know what "widespread criminality among migrants" who speak of. I assume you could point to the awful New Year's sexual assault attacks in Germany, in which there were 24 rapes, and numerous cases of crimes and attacks on thousands of both citizens of Germany and immigrants.

The suspected 153 perpetrators, 103 of them who are not even from places where the refugee crisis is occurring (they are from Morrocco and Algeria). 68 of them were asylum seekers, and 18 were completely illegally in the nation. 4 of the 153 were German citizens, and the rest of the 47's nationality are unknown.

I do not know of anyone that would defend such awful and heinous actions. But it must be our job, as citizens and enlightened people, to understand them and the rationale for them, not just become reactionaries who are afraid to even allow a single refugee in our nation on the basis of their religion. (not saying you are saying that, but referencing those that do say it in the far-right European nations experiencing this problem).

Also, I completely think we need to continue to screen those that enter our nation as refugees. We have a 2-year long screening system, which favors women and children rather than adult men.

Anyways, in conclusion, I do not know of anyone who would defend any of these actions, and if they do they are entirely wrong and do not represent the opinion of what I know to be the "left". We have to understand these people and help them assimilate to our culture, instead of entirely pushing them away to such awful living conditions as are where they come from.

     The event in Cologne was a big part of what I am talking about, but there's been a lot more than that. I found a map of migrant crimes in Germany, which illustrates the extent of the issue there. Sweden and France are also in trouble here. Few people defend these crimes outright, but many are too afraid to speak out against these crimes.

     To your point, I agree that we should not tar all Muslims with these crimes. The United States has a decent handle on the situation, and lacks these same social problems. I know many Muslims who are good people and do not merit the least bit of criticism for their religion and the bad things done in its name. They deserve to be treated as individuals, and not as members of a certain group.

[Anna Komnene]

Part of the problem is that people think there are "leaders of Islam" when there are not.  At least not in the same sense as Catholicism, Orthodox, or even Tibetan Buddhism.  There is no head of Islam.  Some countries like Iran link religious leaders with state leaders, but their influence on religious thought outside of their own country is insignificant (and many people in their own country don't agree with their views either btw).  So there is no leader of Islam espousing these views, and actually, like most religions, there is a lot of debate and disagreement between various followers and sects of the religion over what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed.  In fact, if you look at a lot of different countries in the Middle East, you'll find their culture, dress, and thoughts about social issues are quite different from one another.  You could say the same thing about virtually any major religion.  It just depends on who you're claiming are the leaders of that religion.

[America Needs R'hllor]

I am more than willing to call out the Saudis or those in African nations for their homophobic, sexist, and generally awful practices, but calling out an entire religion (including 3 million American muslims) for these actions is wholeheartedly ridiculous.

Do the actions of the KKK demand the apologies of every Christian? Does an awful action taken by Israel require the acknowledgement and having every Jewish leader speak out? No.

This is not the 'PC Police' or just 'Liberal Apologists', this is us coming together, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, everyone, against the forces of hate and evil. Calling out an entire religion, for actions of those whom they most obviously despise, hurts our ability to work together and that is why we liberals stand with the Muslim community.

Agreed. Attacking Muslims as a community is ridiculous. Islam, however, is an ideology, and I'm willing to attack it, just as I'm willing to attack Christianity and Judaism for some very problematic values they instill.