The Potomac Agreement: A Co-Presidency
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  The Potomac Agreement: A Co-Presidency
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Author Topic: The Potomac Agreement: A Co-Presidency  (Read 1991 times)
Blair
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« on: November 24, 2016, 04:05:07 AM »
« edited: November 24, 2016, 04:42:07 PM by Fmr. Senator Blair »



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Kalwejt
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2016, 09:51:35 AM »

Why can't we just abolish the Presidency and proclaim Jesus King of Atlasia?
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20RP12
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2016, 02:21:09 PM »

Huzzah. Finally some resolution.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2016, 03:36:43 PM »

Is this constitutional?
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Blair
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2016, 03:50:16 PM »


From the Federal Election Act

Section 4: Tied Runoff Elections
If the Runoff Election procedure specified in section 4 results in a tie, then:
1. One of the tied candidates may concede their portion of the term. The rules for determining the winner shall proceed based on as if the number tied candidates is reduced by one.
2. The two candidates shall each serve for one half of a term.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2016, 04:18:04 PM »

Meh, a real co-presidency would be if we have co-presidents serving at the same time, like Roman consuls.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2016, 04:23:28 PM »


From the Federal Election Act

Section 4: Tied Runoff Elections
If the Runoff Election procedure specified in section 4 results in a tie, then:
1. One of the tied candidates may concede their portion of the term. The rules for determining the winner shall proceed based on as if the number tied candidates is reduced by one.
2. The two candidates shall each serve for one half of a term.

That part of the law seems to be in conflict with the Constitution, which explicitly states that the President shall serve for four months, without mention of co-presidents.  I don't have much interest in challenging the law myself nor am I necessarily against this agreement, but this does seem borderline, if not outright, unconstitutional.
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Enduro
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2016, 04:27:23 PM »

Meh, a real co-presidency would be if we have co-presidents serving at the same time, like Roman consuls.

Yeah, that's what I thought was going to happen, and it would've been a more interesting outcome.
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Blair
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2016, 04:33:38 PM »
« Edited: November 24, 2016, 04:46:20 PM by Fmr. Senator Blair »


From the Federal Election Act

Section 4: Tied Runoff Elections
If the Runoff Election procedure specified in section 4 results in a tie, then:
1. One of the tied candidates may concede their portion of the term. The rules for determining the winner shall proceed based on as if the number tied candidates is reduced by one.
2. The two candidates shall each serve for one half of a term.

That part of the law seems to be in conflict with the Constitution, which explicitly states that the President shall serve for four months, without mention of co-presidents.  I don't have much interest in challenging the law myself nor am I necessarily against this agreement, but this does seem borderline, if not outright, unconstitutional.

There's even less of a grounding in the law for a CO-Presidency in the sense of both of using being in the same office, or serving as each others Vice-Presidents.

The constitutional aspect raised by Scott could be offset by the clause which states that...

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Likewise I've talked to President Truman, Supreme Court Justice Windjammer, Yankee and Rpyor about the dynamics of this deal; and the issue hasn't been raised as a constitutional roadblock

To take a rather liberal brush to the entire clause (besides the fact that we still have 'he'; constitutionally baring a women from office) is that it's merely referring to the Office, and saying that the Presidential term should be this long- not the officeholder should have that term for four months

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Kalwejt
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2016, 04:59:03 PM »

I think it would be safer to do something like this:

1. Yankee concedes and Blair is inaugurated
2. At some point Blair appoints Yankee Vice President (elected VP stepping down)
3. After two months since taking office, Blair resigns, making Yankee President

I know, it sounds like more complications, but I prefer doing this rather than have another legal challenge, delaying everything. We can always amend the constitution later.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2016, 05:04:34 PM »

If none of the justices have a problem with the plan, I suppose it should proceed.  I think Kalwejt's idea is the most legal way of carrying this out.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2016, 05:10:12 PM »

If none of the justices have a problem with the plan, I suppose it should proceed.  I think Kalwejt's idea is the most legal way of carrying this out.

I just don't want the legal crisis prolonged by possible claims of unconstitutionality and illegitimacy.
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Blair
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2016, 04:11:13 AM »

There's nothing more I can do on my part until Yankee comes online
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2016, 04:04:53 AM »

I think it would be safer to do something like this:

1. Yankee concedes and Blair is inaugurated
2. At some point Blair appoints Yankee Vice President (elected VP stepping down)
3. After two months since taking office, Blair resigns, making Yankee President

I know, it sounds like more complications, but I prefer doing this rather than have another legal challenge, delaying everything. We can always amend the constitution later.

I agree with the caution expressed by the ever wise GM.

I PM Blair expressing my support for a slight variation of this arrangement as communicated to me in his most recent PM on the matter.
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Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2016, 07:22:16 AM »

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Truer words never spoken.
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Blair
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2016, 07:59:18 AM »

I've been in contact with Yankee and hope to have this all sorted as soon as possible
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Blair
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2016, 04:48:50 AM »

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Kalwejt
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2016, 06:27:44 AM »

I'm happy you guys choose the most plausible legal path to sort it out. In meantime, we should probably pass a constitutional amendment to make such a shared term part of the law.
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Blair
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2016, 07:49:39 AM »

I'm happy you guys choose the most plausible legal path to sort it out. In meantime, we should probably pass a constitutional amendment to make such a shared term part of the law.

I'm glad you and Scott raised it; we were in the awkward position of it not be illegal or legal 
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Poirot
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2016, 07:50:09 PM »

Seeing Kingpoleon swear in and resign for VP the same day, does it mean NCYankee is VP right away or only in January just before the switch in President. It was not clear to me when I read the agreement.

I thought the law in case of a tie after run off said each candidate gets half the term. I presume it is the whole ticket, including the VP. 
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rpryor03
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« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2016, 07:59:41 PM »

Seeing Kingpoleon swear in and resign for VP the same day, does it mean NCYankee is VP right away or only in January just before the switch in President. It was not clear to me when I read the agreement.

I thought the law in case of a tie after run off said each candidate gets half the term. I presume it is the whole ticket, including the VP. 

So does that make me VP, as my opponent declined to serve his half of the term, or what does this mean exactly?
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2016, 08:00:32 PM »

Seeing Kingpoleon swear in and resign for VP the same day, does it mean NCYankee is VP right away or only in January just before the switch in President.
From what I understand, the plan is for Yankee to be nominated to replace Kingpoleon more or less immediately; obviously, he will need to be confirmed by the Senate before taking office.

I thought the law in case of a tie after run off said each candidate gets half the term. I presume it is the whole ticket, including the VP.  
As Scott and Yankee explained earlier, that law is probably unconstitutional, as there is no provision in the Constitution that allows Congress to split the president's term in half.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2016, 08:03:17 PM »

So does that make me VP, as my opponent declined to serve his half of the term, or what does this mean exactly?
No. Per past precedent, the vice presidency is now vacant pending the confirmation of a replacement by the Senate (presumably, Blair will nominate Yankee to fill the vacancy, per the terms of this agreement).
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Poirot
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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2016, 10:57:50 PM »

The tied runoff scenario is not in the constitution (we can't have all the laws in the constitution) but the election act quoted earlier gives half a term to each candidate.

From the Federal Election Act

Section 4: Tied Runoff Elections
If the Runoff Election procedure specified in section 4 results in a tie, then:
1. One of the tied candidates may concede their portion of the term. The rules for determining the winner shall proceed based on as if the number tied candidates is reduced by one.
2. The two candidates shall each serve for one half of a term.

I'm for giving each ticket (President and VP) half of the remaining term. It seems logic in case of a tie, both ticket gets their turn at governing. Now the tied VP won't even get the chance to be VP even if they both tied in public vote? If VP is not that important, abolish it.

In the twisted Blair / NCYankee ticket, when Blair resigns from President will he then be nominated to be VP and need to be confirmed by the Senate.
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Blair
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« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2016, 03:54:59 AM »

That was our original plan Poirot, and trust me its what we wanted to do do- the problem is that the constitution doesn't allow for separate terms.

As we've learnt from the Court there's a lot wrong with that election Act; and even if the act outlined it it's dubious to give someone the Presidency without them being in line for it
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