This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own go

[Greatest I am]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Why do you think you can figure out what an infinite being is interested in?

That is an excellent question for theists.

All that is said of God by theists is speculative nonsense. Those who argue aga9nst them are allowed then to use other speculative nonsense to put against what they say.

That reciprocity is fair play is it not?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL

How do you know that God isn't suicidal?

I cannot know, but if he was or is, he has had eons to off his immoral self.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Presupposing that its attention could be finite or divided assumes the limits of a material being. This thing would be literally unlimited by any standard we could comprehend.

Yet he seem limited in his ability to show himself or have a true son instead of the hybrid chimera he supposedly gave us.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Presupposing that its attention could be finite or divided assumes the limits of a material being. This thing would be literally unlimited by any standard we could comprehend.

I agree, and my original post was not meant to reject the possibility that God cares deeply about humanity, too.  I obviously believe that God cares for humanity at least in some aspect, but I don't particularly think He/She/It cares about things like premarital sex ... though I could certainly be wrong.

The point I was trying to make, which I think you'd probably agree with, as that a being that created EVERYTHING we are aware of would, by definition, have a "mind" (I believe God to be completely without physical form and literally a "floating" consciousness) that works in ways we couldn't even fathom.

If a Trinitarian, then you would have to see 3 consciousness'. Right?

And if only one consciousness, can you really picture Jesus torturing and killing babies like God is shown to do in the King David myth?

If God is more than one consciousness, would Jesus not have argued with Yahweh against the torture and killing of an innocent baby?

Regards
DL

[DavidB.]

No, I don't agree with Jesus or any of his "rules" (normal Jew).

[Greatest I am]

No, I don't agree with Jesus or any of his "rules" (normal Jew).

??

Most Jews do, --- to some extent.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Regards
DL

[RFayette]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners. 

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace! 

[Wells]

We should be more thankful that God gives us rainbows when he could just as easily be drowning everybody. Meanwhile, the ways of a perfect being such as God may be hard to understand for imperfect being such as humans, and you should probably stop trying.

Wow. A good way to do as scriptures say. Here is one of the few bits of wisdom within it.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You promote ignorance while your bible doers the opposite.

Are you that afraid of having a look at your genocidal son murdering God?

Regards
DL

I wasn't promoting ignorance, I was just saying God works in mysterious and complex ways which you either oversimplify or don't understand. 

[Greatest I am]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners. 

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace! 

I see that you have yet to read your bible. Does this sound like Jesus volunteered?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Jesus volunteering or not is irrelevant to the issue of you profiting from the murder of an innocent man.

The fact that you do not recognize that shows how your religion has corrupted your morals.

As to Eden, why did God put Satan in the garden knowing that Eve could not resist God's own deception power running through Satan.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

We should be more thankful that God gives us rainbows when he could just as easily be drowning everybody. Meanwhile, the ways of a perfect being such as God may be hard to understand for imperfect being such as humans, and you should probably stop trying.

Wow. A good way to do as scriptures say. Here is one of the few bits of wisdom within it.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You promote ignorance while your bible doers the opposite.

Are you that afraid of having a look at your genocidal son murdering God?

Regards
DL

I wasn't promoting ignorance, I was just saying God works in mysterious and complex ways which you either oversimplify or don't understand. 

Yet you can somehow understand mysterious ways that include genocide.

Only the vilest immorality embraces any God who uses genocide.

Who is your number two hero? Hitler?

Regards
DL

[RFayette]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners. 

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace! 

I see that you have yet to read your bible. Does this sound like Jesus volunteered?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Jesus volunteering or not is irrelevant to the issue of you profiting from the murder of an innocent man.

The fact that you do not recognize that shows how your religion has corrupted your morals.

As to Eden, why did God put Satan in the garden knowing that Eve could not resist God's own deception power running through Satan.

Regards
DL

Look at Galatians 1:4 - Jesus did give himself to be a savior for us - him being foreordained to die for us does not negate the fact that he suffered for us willingly.

As far as why God did what he did in Eden, all I can say is that his ways are higher than ours.  But the point is that sin exists in the world because it is our fault as humans, not God's.  Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and we see the consequences of that decision in all the suffering around us.

[Greatest I am]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners. 

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace! 

I see that you have yet to read your bible. Does this sound like Jesus volunteered?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Jesus volunteering or not is irrelevant to the issue of you profiting from the murder of an innocent man.

The fact that you do not recognize that shows how your religion has corrupted your morals.

As to Eden, why did God put Satan in the garden knowing that Eve could not resist God's own deception power running through Satan.

Regards
DL

Look at Galatians 1:4 - Jesus did give himself to be a savior for us - him being foreordained to die for us does not negate the fact that he suffered for us willingly.

As far as why God did what he did in Eden, all I can say is that his ways are higher than ours.  But the point is that sin exists in the world because it is our fault as humans, not God's.  Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and we see the consequences of that decision in all the suffering around us.

As I said above, voluntary or not, it is immoral for you to put your burden on an innocent victim.

If you cannot recognize that simple moral truth, you show how your religion has corrupted your morals.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Satan loves those who only see the prize and ignore their immorality for it.

Regards
DL

[RFayette]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners.  

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace!  

I see that you have yet to read your bible. Does this sound like Jesus volunteered?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Jesus volunteering or not is irrelevant to the issue of you profiting from the murder of an innocent man.

The fact that you do not recognize that shows how your religion has corrupted your morals.

As to Eden, why did God put Satan in the garden knowing that Eve could not resist God's own deception power running through Satan.

Regards
DL

Look at Galatians 1:4 - Jesus did give himself to be a savior for us - him being foreordained to die for us does not negate the fact that he suffered for us willingly.

As far as why God did what he did in Eden, all I can say is that his ways are higher than ours.  But the point is that sin exists in the world because it is our fault as humans, not God's.  Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and we see the consequences of that decision in all the suffering around us.

As I said above, voluntary or not, it is immoral for you to put your burden on an innocent victim.

If you cannot recognize that simple moral truth, you show how your religion has corrupted your morals.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Satan loves those who only see the prize and ignore their immorality for it.

Regards
DL

The scriptures you cite show how serious the issue of sin is.  Fortunately, God showed us grace in the Lord Jesus Christ, so that all who believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.  We all have an individual account that will be decided before a holy God, and as such, we must have atonement for it.

[Wells]

vilest immorality

So I'm vile and immoral now because I don't think God is evil. Good to know.

Who is your number two hero? Hitler?

What a good question. You sure are good at making people re-examine their faith. But as I see you answered it for me so I don't see any reason to answer it. Anything I say probably won't change your opinion of me from vile and immoral anyways.

Here's a question for you: do you ever pay attention when your mother makes you go to church?

[Mopsus]

This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL

How do you know that God isn't suicidal?

I cannot know, but if he was or is, he has had eons to off his immoral self.

Regards
DL

Not all suicidal people commit suicide.

[Greatest I am]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners.  

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace!  

I see that you have yet to read your bible. Does this sound like Jesus volunteered?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Jesus volunteering or not is irrelevant to the issue of you profiting from the murder of an innocent man.

The fact that you do not recognize that shows how your religion has corrupted your morals.

As to Eden, why did God put Satan in the garden knowing that Eve could not resist God's own deception power running through Satan.

Regards
DL

Look at Galatians 1:4 - Jesus did give himself to be a savior for us - him being foreordained to die for us does not negate the fact that he suffered for us willingly.

As far as why God did what he did in Eden, all I can say is that his ways are higher than ours.  But the point is that sin exists in the world because it is our fault as humans, not God's.  Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and we see the consequences of that decision in all the suffering around us.

As I said above, voluntary or not, it is immoral for you to put your burden on an innocent victim.

If you cannot recognize that simple moral truth, you show how your religion has corrupted your morals.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Satan loves those who only see the prize and ignore their immorality for it.

Regards
DL

The scriptures you cite show how serious the issue of sin is.  Fortunately, God showed us grace in the Lord Jesus Christ, so that all who believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.  We all have an individual account that will be decided before a holy God, and as such, we must have atonement for it.

As I said, Satan loves those like you who would do the immoral thing and just look at the prize.

Only fools will think a God would condemn you just to turn around and die for you, even while you know God cannot die.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

[RFayette]

As I said, Satan loves those like you who would do the immoral thing and just look at the prize.

Only fools will think a God would condemn you just to turn around and die for you, even while you know God cannot die.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

Out of curiosity, as a "Gnostic Christian," do you even believe Satan exists?  If not, why are you using him as arguments against my position?

Regardless, Ingersoll is just a man, but let's look at what the word of God has to say in 2 Corinthians 5:21: "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."  Seems pretty clear to me. 

In my mind, the foolish thing is to call oneself a Christian and deny what Jesus said in Matthew 20:28 that "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

[Greatest I am]

As I said, Satan loves those like you who would do the immoral thing and just look at the prize.

Only fools will think a God would condemn you just to turn around and die for you, even while you know God cannot die.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

Out of curiosity, as a "Gnostic Christian," do you even believe Satan exists?  If not, why are you using him as arguments against my position?

Regardless, Ingersoll is just a man, but let's look at what the word of God has to say in 2 Corinthians 5:21: "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."  Seems pretty clear to me. 

In my mind, the foolish thing is to call oneself a Christian and deny what Jesus said in Matthew 20:28 that "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Jesus was a sinner like all of us are.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

That aside.

So now you have God asking for and accepting a ransom, to change his usual justice of punishing the evil, to punishing the good.

IOW, God can be bought off.

Again, you ignore your bible.

http://biblehub.com/psalms/49-7.htm
http://biblehub.com/psalms/49-8.htm

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

If you do not agree, it is because Satan has you firmly in hand.

" do you even believe Satan exists?"

No. There is no supernatural or delusional thinking in Gnostic Christian beliefs.

We do not believe in talking serpents and donkeys or a genocidal son murdering God.

Our minds and morals have never been that corrupted. We seek truth. Not lies.

Regards
DL