Two Counties Gave HRC her ENTIRE PV Plurality
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  Two Counties Gave HRC her ENTIRE PV Plurality
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Author Topic: Two Counties Gave HRC her ENTIRE PV Plurality  (Read 7714 times)
Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2016, 11:26:29 PM »

Hypothetically if a republican candidate got 90% of the vote in the southern states and won the popular vote but lost all the other states should that person be president?  I don't think so.
Why on earth not? It's clear that, for this scenario to be mathematically possible, the Republican nominee must have lost the non-Southern states by very slim margins and probably massively outperformed in traditionally liberal states like New York and California (meaning that a fair number of Democrats voted for the Republican candidate). I don't see why the GOP voters in those states should be disenfranchised, especially considering they constitute a majority of citizens nationally.
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Kerrington
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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2016, 06:58:57 AM »

Once and for all: Landmass does not vote!!!
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peterthlee
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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2016, 09:21:14 PM »

To ExtremeRepublican: I have to disagree with you, even though you are technically right.

Consider the same analogy: Only 1 county (Clark) gave Catherine Cortez Masto the Senate seat. Take it out and Joe Heck is our next senator.

I fully understand that in your home state of Tennessee, except the heavily urban areas (e.g. Nashville), every rural county trended and swung to GOP's firm column, and Trump won by the most lopsided margin of 61-35-4 in the 21st century.
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politicallefty
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« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2016, 09:30:56 AM »

Perhaps we could compromise by using the Mexican system to elect our president. In that, the candidate with the most votes wins, but every voter must show a photo ID proving their citizenship and eligibility to vote. Democrats get a popular vote. GOP gets voter ID. Sounds like a good compromise to me!
I could support this, provided we take the necessary steps to ensure that all voting age citizens receive a photo ID.

I could support that idea as well, despite my general strong stance against voter ID. If we established such a system with time to spare and had a strong proactive government to ensure everyone has easy access to free voter ID, I could accept some of the provisions that those on the right would like. The right gets voter ID, but we make it so that it is free and the government is proactive is giving it to all eligible voters. With that in place, there's not a reason for the right to oppose early voting, same-day registration, or automatic voter registration.
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FrancoAgo
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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2016, 10:23:53 AM »

In Italy all people that has political rights is registred for vote, the voter identification is achivied or through a ID or personal knowledge by polling stations crew (they came from the same municipality so in the small town commonly the ID is not required), i think this is a very good method
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darthebearnc
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« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2016, 11:11:13 AM »

Only three counties gave Trump his EC majority...
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SWE
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« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2016, 04:19:03 PM »

Get rid of Cook County, IL and Los Angeles County, CA, and Trump wins the PV.  This is why we have the EC- to protect the rest of America from two counties out of over 3000.
I mean, yeah, if there were fewer Clinton voter she'd have lost the PV. I'm glad you understand how subtraction works, although I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?
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Badger
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« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2016, 11:17:14 AM »

This is a weak argument. The reason for the electoral college, like so many things laid out in the constitution, is to provide checks and balances, int his case on the larger states. It's not about counties. It's about holding back "the violence of factions" frequently mentioned in the federalist papers.
Too many people on this site don't really understand the level of prescient wisdom in our constitutional framework.
I am not dead-set against reforming the EC altogether. But I think we ought to be very careful about how we tamper with it, if we tamper with it. America has had a record of stability that few other nations can dream of matching. We shouldn't be trash-talking our constitutional framework, we should be talking it up!

America is a few hundred years old.  There are many many more nations that have been stable for much longer.

That and the founders supported the EC as a republican anti-democratic measure so the wise heads of the EC would overrule any heated poor decision by the ignorant masses. What would the EC do in 2016 according to precedent? Hmmmmmm......

The founders didn't allow for direct election of senators, land requirements to vote, onnly male sufferage, etc. Their views on direct democracy are grossly anachronistic by today's standard of relatively educated and informed electorate, and would be rebuked by 90% of Republican "originalists".

There's only one reason for the EC today, and it's neither philosophical nor constitutional, but simply political.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2016, 11:29:20 AM »

This is why we have the Electoral College, folks.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2016, 12:00:29 PM »

The same can be said of Trump with electoral college. We can talk about shifting counties around all we want, but it's really a moot point since the votes of every state and county are going to continue to count. Cook and Los Angeles contribute to economy and federal budget greatly, yet I don't see anyone complaining about that.
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Mr. Illini
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« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2016, 12:30:26 PM »

"Remove 15 million people (5%) from the country, and Trump is a winner!" - op
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politicallefty
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« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2016, 07:34:53 PM »

"Remove 15 million people (5%) from the country, and Trump is a winner!" - op

I'm glad someone finally said it. I love how so many of them want to spread so-called "American democracy" across the world. Unfortunately, it's an oxymoron and our best applications of democracy are parliamentary republics that look nothing like this country.
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Badger
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« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2016, 01:20:10 AM »

This is why we have the Electoral College, folks.

Um, no?
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DPKdebator
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« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2016, 04:53:06 PM »

Republicans and Democrats didn't even exist when the EC was created.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2016, 05:04:38 PM »

Every one of the republicans arguing for the EC would have been demanding that it be abolished if trump won the PV but lost the EC.
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AGA
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« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2016, 10:23:36 PM »
« Edited: January 04, 2017, 10:06:00 PM by Chrome »

It's technically not true that they gave her entire PV plurality. If she had only won these two counties, she would have lost the PV, of course. County boundaries can be pretty arbitrary, so whether the 15 million people in Los Angeles and Cook counties were divided into two counties or ten counties should make no difference.
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mistertheplague
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« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2016, 10:47:57 PM »

This is why we have the Electoral College, folks.

We have the Electoral College because slaves couldn't vote.
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Figueira
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« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2016, 11:25:49 PM »


Nor is it a particularly good argument for it.

People in Los Angeles and Chicago live in the US and have to follow its laws, so why shouldn't they have a say in who gets to be its leader?
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« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2016, 11:30:22 PM »

This is why we have the Electoral College, folks.

So that 3 counties can give Trump his entire electoral vote lead?
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JoshPA
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« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2016, 06:56:58 PM »

The Republican attacks on people who live in urban areas are disgusting.
the democrats were rioting and beating up people for voting trump you side isnt Innocent either.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2016, 10:59:54 PM »

The Republican attacks on people who live in urban areas are disgusting.
the democrats were rioting and beating up people for voting trump you side isnt Innocent either.

'No you' is the oldest and most craven way of avoiding moral self-reflection in the book.
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JustinTimeCuber
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« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2016, 09:17:50 PM »

Hypothetically if a republican candidate got 90% of the vote in the southern states and won the popular vote but lost all the other states should that person be president?  I don't think so.
No, he should. My opinions on how elections work don't change when the parties flip.
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elcorazon
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« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2016, 12:09:38 PM »

Hypothetically if a republican candidate got 90% of the vote in the southern states and won the popular vote but lost all the other states should that person be president?  I don't think so.
No, he should. My opinions on how elections work don't change when the parties flip.
And part of the justification for this is that in the case you site, the person would need significant minority support in the rest of the country to win the popular vote. My only fear in that regard is a 3 person race skewing it even further.
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Figueira
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« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2016, 12:19:16 PM »

Hypothetically if a republican candidate got 90% of the vote in the southern states and won the popular vote but lost all the other states should that person be president?  I don't think so.
No, he should. My opinions on how elections work don't change when the parties flip.
And part of the justification for this is that in the case you site, the person would need significant minority support in the rest of the country to win the popular vote. My only fear in that regard is a 3 person race skewing it even further.

Exactly. You don't get 90% of the Southern vote unless (a) you're winning lots of minorities, or (b) there's some serious vote suppression going on.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2017, 09:10:01 AM »

So?
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