Obamacare repealed...then what?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Step 2: ...
Step 3: PROFIT!

[Hermit For Peace]

Nothing, because it's not going to be repealed. The Republican leadership likes to talk about repeal, but isn't going to risk potential losses on actually doing it. That talk about delaying the repeal until after 2020 is proof of the apprehension that the leadership has.

This. The Republicans are going to put on a dog and pony show and we wind up with a slightly altered ObamaCare plan.

If they are truly putting on a dog and pony show then that's a damn shame. Why don't they just suck it up and admit that the ACA does some real good things for a lot of people, but let's make it even better for even more people.

Try being human for once, GOP and stuff the egos.

[Mike88]

Health care, along with guns and race, is one of the things i don't get with America. Everywhere else it was easily solved. In my opinion, the problem is that Americans just don't know what they want in regard to health care. They don't like the government running it, they don't like the high costs of insurance and they don't like to pay for treatments, via taxing, for other people.  

Let's face it, until the country finds a common goal about health care, nothing lasting will be reached.

[Person Man]

Health care, along with guns and race, is one of the things i don't get with America. Everywhere else it was easily solved. In my opinion, the problem is that Americans just don't know what they want in regard to health care. They don't like the government running it, they don't like the high costs of insurance and they don't like to pay for treatments, via taxing, for other people.  

Let's face it, until the country finds a common goal about health care, nothing lasting will be reached.

Or until someone causes it to finally spiral and after 5 years of 14% unemployment and 35% uninsured rate, we either agree to

1) That you either pay whatever the non-insurance inflated price is at the Wal-Mart clinic and if you get in an accident, play in toxic waste, or have a mutation, you either pay by cashing in your 401k, take out a HEL or 2nd mortgage, or get a loan or  sign up for assisted suicide or hospice, whatever you can come up with...maybe a dying bed in the undercroft of a church. Maybe it will be like that repoman movie.

OR

2) Just go with Medicare for those who can afford like 200 or 300 a month a person or Medicaid if they can't.

Maybe many people will cash in their 401k for a downpayment on life extension if we go to FFS or if SP doesn't cover it. You will live 20 years longer, but have about the same time in retirement.

[Slander and/or Libel]

The repeal and delay plan is specifically designed to create a hostage situation, and to blame Democrats for not coming to the table to solve it. The GOP is pulling the pin on a grenade and they're going to try to blame Democrats for not throwing it away.

[Virginiá]

The repeal and delay plan is specifically designed to create a hostage situation, and to blame Democrats for not coming to the table to solve it. The GOP is pulling the pin on a grenade and they're going to try to blame Democrats for not throwing it away.

I thought this article seemed to have a lot of good points. I'd recommend reading it:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/repeal-and-delay-is-forever.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Since any 'repeal' they will be doing will almost surely be via reconciliation, Democrats could reverse it if we get a unified govt again before Republicans try to hang us with the fallout from their reckless repeal efforts.

[Hermit For Peace]

"Make America Sick Again."

[Mr.Phips]

The repeal and delay plan is specifically designed to create a hostage situation, and to blame Democrats for not coming to the table to solve it. The GOP is pulling the pin on a grenade and they're going to try to blame Democrats for not throwing it away.

All Democrats need to say is "Republicans have the Presidency and both Houses of Congress, they should be able to pass a replacement". 

[Hermit For Peace]

At this point, the GOP will not be able to blame the Dems for anything. It's their ballgame and they can pretty much ramrod through anything they want, especially now that King Tut is on the throne.

[Slander and/or Libel]

Not if they can't pass a replacement by reconciliation. Or if some Republicans don't tow the line.

[Mr.Phips]

Not if they can't pass a replacement by reconciliation. Or if some Republicans don't tow the line.

Then that's their problem.  They control the White House and Congress.

[Hermit For Peace]

At this point, the GOP will not be able to blame the Dems for anything. It's their ballgame and they can pretty much ramrod through anything they want, especially now that King Tut is on the throne.

Let's not kid ourselves...they will repeal and not replace and they'll get away with it all. Just imagine Trump's rage tweets and the media sucking him off blaming the Democrats for not cooperating

People just dont get it...Trump will get away with practically anything

Why do you suppose that is?

[Hermit For Peace]

So is this how a successful CEO runs a business? Just get rid of something that "we don't like" and worry about the details later?

Not deal with a replacement program until later, just get rid of the smelly thing first?

Seems to me you deal with the replacement program FIRST, have it ready at the helm, THEN get rid of the smelly thing. That's what rational minds would do, IMO.

[Hermit For Peace]

At this point, the GOP will not be able to blame the Dems for anything. It's their ballgame and they can pretty much ramrod through anything they want, especially now that King Tut is on the throne.

Let's not kid ourselves...they will repeal and not replace and they'll get away with it all. Just imagine Trump's rage tweets and the media sucking him off blaming the Democrats for not cooperating

People just dont get it...Trump will get away with practically anything

Why do you suppose that is?

I can't explain it but it's just my gut feeling...just think about what the GOP has got away with for the last decade alone...the 9/11, the Iraq War disaster which gave us ISIS, and the economic collapse of 2008...and yet here we are...the GOP stronger then ever before!

The GOP is a corrupt fascist organization...they look at what Trump got away with and thanks to extreme polarization and gerrymandering, they've just realized they can get away with anything especially after the election of a disgusting piece of shyt like Trump who is literally Gaddaffi but dumber

Something they didn't get away with is dropping the ethics committee. At least once in a while Trump may come through with some good stuff. I am hoping this is the case in the coming years...we'll see.

But otherwise, you do bring up some points to ponder.

[pbrower2a]

So is this how a successful CEO runs a business? Just get rid of something that "we don't like" and worry about the details later?

Not deal with a replacement program until later, just get rid of the smelly thing first?

Seems to me you deal with the replacement program FIRST, have it ready at the helm, THEN get rid of the smelly thing. That's what rational minds would do, IMO.

If the Republicans had a coherent and improved alternative for Obamacare, then they could have introduced it while Obama was President during an active session, had a debate in both houses of Congress that brings the benefits before the public (including cost containment and obvious reforms in funding and implementation) and compel him to accept or reject it.

Now that the Republicans have a near-totalitarian level of control of the political process (as there is no obvious dissent possible within the Party and it can completely ignore the sensibilties of the Democrats) they probably can abolish it (and probably Medicare as well) and return to the model of maximal pricing for minimal service -- profit maximization. That people die? Tough luck! Such is the Will of God anyway in the most superstitious country in the Industrial West. The only fear that the Republicans have is of being defeated in the next election or two, and that could be preventable.

The right strategy would have been either to bring incremental reforms or to offer a viable substitute. That happens when politics is give-and-take and not simply getting away with what one can when one can. That is how democracy works.
 
We Americans no longer have a functioning democracy. We at best have something like the old Spanish Torno in which the winners of one election go after the losers of the previous election even to the extent of putting the prominent figures of the previous government in prison )Think of Donald Trump egging supporters on with "Lock her up!", undoing the legislative changes of the previous government, pushing a polarizing agenda, and enriching those connected to the winning Party.  With that one gets radical change but no sustained progress. That Torno ended with the accession of Francisco Franco to power in the Spanish Civil War. Franco ensured that there would be no change of government except over his dead body -- and that would take nearly forty years.

Now that I think of it -- Fidel Castro did much the same except to impose as  a godless and anti-capitalist order as Franco's regime was devout and plutocratic, and it will take at least sixty years for a meaningful change of government from the one that Castro established in the wake of the Cuban Revolution.    

[Hermit For Peace]

So is this how a successful CEO runs a business? Just get rid of something that "we don't like" and worry about the details later?

Not deal with a replacement program until later, just get rid of the smelly thing first?

Seems to me you deal with the replacement program FIRST, have it ready at the helm, THEN get rid of the smelly thing. That's what rational minds would do, IMO.

If the Republicans had a coherent and improved alternative for Obamacare, then they could have introduced it while Obama was President during an active session, had a debate in both houses of Congress that brings the benefits before the public (including cost containment and obvious reforms in funding and implementation) and compel him to accept or reject it.

Now that the Republicans have a near-totalitarian level of control of the political process (as there is no obvious dissent possible within the Party and it can completely ignore the sensibilties of the Democrats) they probably can abolish it (and probably Medicare as well) and return to the model of maximal pricing for minimal service -- profit maximization. That people die? Tough luck! Such is the Will of God anyway in the most superstitious country in the Industrial West. The only fear that the Republicans have is of being defeated in the next election or two, and that could be preventable.

The right strategy would have been either to bring incremental reforms or to offer a viable substitute. That happens when politics is give-and-take and not simply getting away with what one can when one can. That is how democracy works.
 
We Americans no longer have a functioning democracy. We at best have something like the old Spanish Torno in which the winners of one election go after the losers of the previous election even to the extent of putting the prominent figures of the previous government in prison )Think of Donald Trump egging supporters on with "Lock her up!", undoing the legislative changes of the previous government, pushing a polarizing agenda, and enriching those connected to the winning Party.  With that one gets radical change but no sustained progress. That Torno ended with the accession of Francisco Franco to power in the Spanish Civil War. Franco ensured that there would be no change of government except over his dead body -- and that would take nearly forty years.

Now that I think of it -- Fidel Castro did much the same except to impose as  a godless and anti-capitalist order as Franco's regime was devout and plutocratic, and it will take at least sixty years for a meaningful change of government from the one that Castro established in the wake of the Cuban Revolution.    

That's a very informative post. I wanted to acknowledge what you wrote, I enjoyed reading it. And you make sense about the fact that if they really had a coherent and improved alternative to Obamacare they would have presented it by now. My logical mind just can't comprehend why they want to repeal without offering anything better and cheaper because that's what they say they want. It must be all about ego because that's the only thing that makes any sense, which is actually a bad thing for the rest of us.

[Person Man]

So is this how a successful CEO runs a business? Just get rid of something that "we don't like" and worry about the details later?

Not deal with a replacement program until later, just get rid of the smelly thing first?

Seems to me you deal with the replacement program FIRST, have it ready at the helm, THEN get rid of the smelly thing. That's what rational minds would do, IMO.

If the Republicans had a coherent and improved alternative for Obamacare, then they could have introduced it while Obama was President during an active session, had a debate in both houses of Congress that brings the benefits before the public (including cost containment and obvious reforms in funding and implementation) and compel him to accept or reject it.

Now that the Republicans have a near-totalitarian level of control of the political process (as there is no obvious dissent possible within the Party and it can completely ignore the sensibilties of the Democrats) they probably can abolish it (and probably Medicare as well) and return to the model of maximal pricing for minimal service -- profit maximization. That people die? Tough luck! Such is the Will of God anyway in the most superstitious country in the Industrial West. The only fear that the Republicans have is of being defeated in the next election or two, and that could be preventable.

The right strategy would have been either to bring incremental reforms or to offer a viable substitute. That happens when politics is give-and-take and not simply getting away with what one can when one can. That is how democracy works.
 
We Americans no longer have a functioning democracy. We at best have something like the old Spanish Torno in which the winners of one election go after the losers of the previous election even to the extent of putting the prominent figures of the previous government in prison )Think of Donald Trump egging supporters on with "Lock her up!", undoing the legislative changes of the previous government, pushing a polarizing agenda, and enriching those connected to the winning Party.  With that one gets radical change but no sustained progress. That Torno ended with the accession of Francisco Franco to power in the Spanish Civil War. Franco ensured that there would be no change of government except over his dead body -- and that would take nearly forty years.

Now that I think of it -- Fidel Castro did much the same except to impose as  a godless and anti-capitalist order as Franco's regime was devout and plutocratic, and it will take at least sixty years for a meaningful change of government from the one that Castro established in the wake of the Cuban Revolution.    

That's a very informative post. I wanted to acknowledge what you wrote, I enjoyed reading it. And you make sense about the fact that if they really had a coherent and improved alternative to Obamacare they would have presented it by now. My logical mind just can't comprehend why they want to repeal without offering anything better and cheaper because that's what they say they want. It must be all about ego because that's the only thing that makes any sense, which is actually a bad thing for the rest of us.

When I hear of people talking more about how people don't vote or that there is even their interest being recognized, I then just remember pople that regurgitate 1920s economic philosophy forged into some bizzare form of purity folklore or masonic secret that was spoon fed to them by their boss or "mentor". In reality, your interests are no longer your own. Your new interests are you vertical's interests. Isn't that basically Fuedalism? That is, where people are scared into a system based on a dependence-based vertical?

If you really think about it, all this alt-right talk about "snowflakes" is really about them demeaning and belittling the Western idea of Personal Confidence. Combine this with talk about talk about the decline of families and businesses and you see that they are trying to Easternize our society. A lot of these pols took Non-West Political Cultures in their elite colleges and saw the value in getting voters more concerned about whether their bosses could theoretically pay them as more important than whether they actually  have enough money to live.

[Shadows]

 ‏@realDonaldTrump  6h6 hours ago
The Democrats, lead by head clown Chuck Schumer, know how bad ObamaCare is and what a mess they are in. Instead of working to fix it, they..

@realDonaldTrump  6h6 hours ago
...do the typical political thing and BLAME. The fact is ObamaCare was a lie from the beginning."Keep you doctor, keep your plan!" It is....

realDonaldTrump  6h6 hours ago
...time for Republicans & Democrats to get together and come up with a healthcare plan that really works - much less expensive & FAR BETTER!


If the Dems are serious about doing a good job, they should propose a Single payer & see the reaction - And oppose anything tooth & nail unless the GOP can give a really solid proposal - Don't compromise for the sake of compromising

[pbrower2a]

So is this how a successful CEO runs a business? Just get rid of something that "we don't like" and worry about the details later?

Not deal with a replacement program until later, just get rid of the smelly thing first?

Seems to me you deal with the replacement program FIRST, have it ready at the helm, THEN get rid of the smelly thing. That's what rational minds would do, IMO.

If the Republicans had a coherent and improved alternative for Obamacare, then they could have introduced it while Obama was President during an active session, had a debate in both houses of Congress that brings the benefits before the public (including cost containment and obvious reforms in funding and implementation) and compel him to accept or reject it.

Now that the Republicans have a near-totalitarian level of control of the political process (as there is no obvious dissent possible within the Party and it can completely ignore the sensibilties of the Democrats) they probably can abolish it (and probably Medicare as well) and return to the model of maximal pricing for minimal service -- profit maximization. That people die? Tough luck! Such is the Will of God anyway in the most superstitious country in the Industrial West. The only fear that the Republicans have is of being defeated in the next election or two, and that could be preventable.

The right strategy would have been either to bring incremental reforms or to offer a viable substitute. That happens when politics is give-and-take and not simply getting away with what one can when one can. That is how democracy works.
 
We Americans no longer have a functioning democracy. ...

That's a very informative post. I wanted to acknowledge what you wrote, I enjoyed reading it. And you make sense about the fact that if they really had a coherent and improved alternative to Obamacare they would have presented it by now. My logical mind just can't comprehend why they want to repeal without offering anything better and cheaper because that's what they say they want. It must be all about ego because that's the only thing that makes any sense, which is actually a bad thing for the rest of us.

When I hear of people talking more about how people don't vote or that there is even their interest being recognized, I then just remember people that regurgitate 1920s economic philosophy forged into some bizarre form of purity folklore or masonic secret that was spoon fed to them by their boss or "mentor". In reality, your interests are no longer your own. Your new interests are you vertical's interests. Isn't that basically Fuedalism? That is, where people are scared into a system based on a dependence-based vertical?

If you really think about it, all this alt-right talk about "snowflakes" is really about them demeaning and belittling the Western idea of Personal Confidence. Combine this with talk about talk about the decline of families and businesses and you see that they are trying to Easternize our society. A lot of these pols took Non-West Political Cultures in their elite colleges and saw the value in getting voters more concerned about whether their bosses could theoretically pay them as more important than whether they actually  have enough money to live.

Vertical union? That's how Italian fascism attempted to organize the political system in the Corporate State. Basically the assembly-line worker had more of a shared interest in the welfare of management and ownership within his industry than with fellow assembly-line workers in another industry, and political representation was to be by industry. But Italy is Western, indeed the source of our modern Western civilization. Fascism is now an anathema in Italy.

Contempt for the West? The Japanese, South Koreans, and Taiwanese are  doing better than us Americans at many things. Chinese-Americans, Vietnamese-Americans, and South Asian Americans are doing well enough in America -- far better than white people in the Mountain and Deep South.

Don't ask about Latin-Americans. Latin America is as Western as Europe or the USA.  But here's a surprise for many of us -- they are often doing better than many white subcultures. They look out for themselves and respect formal education as one of the few reliable means out of poverty.

The problem is the rejection of rationality in America from largely white people. Decline of families? What's the problem? That we have same-sex marriage now? Nobody chooses to be gay, but many families go off in different directions to four different sources of electronic entertainment. Education? We don't respect it enough.

[Xing]

Yep, clearly addressing climate change, poverty, medicaid, or even considering what a possible replacement for the ACA would be isn't anywhere near as important as giving Obama the middle finger, even if it costs millions of Americans their insurance. Republicans in congress clearly don't give two sh**ts about Americans or the world, they just want power and to able to use it in whatever way they please. The party of Lincoln has become the party of corruption.

[Hermit For Peace]

Here's another angle that people aren't focusing on if Obamacare gets repealed:

Jobs are going to be lost, lots of them. At lease according to this article:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/05/news/economy/repealing-obamacare-jobs-lost/index.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.