If the Michigan recount went on, would Clinton have flipped it?

[Ricky1121]

I highly doubt it, but what do you think?

[mistertheplague]

Not when Michigan law throws out an entire precinct if the machine/ballot count is off by one vote.

[Lincoln Republican]

Absolutely not.

Anything greater than  a 500 vote difference, even less, makes it virtually impossible to overturn the result.

[mistertheplague]

Larger point: Alex Halderman and other election integrity experts were pushing for a recount in order to conduct a forensic audit of the machines, not to just have the ballots counted over again. I support that 100 percent (and yes, I support it in all 50 states, not just the ones HRC lost). The voting infrastructure in much of this country is appalling. Getting a spotlight on this, uh, deplorable state of affairs is critical, IMO.

Once it became apparent that the overlords, starting with Obama himself, weren't going to let that happen, the recounts became a waste of time and money in my view.

[zorkpolitics]

No way a recount could reverse the Trump margin.  No recount has ever reversed a 1000 vote margin much less a 10,000 vote margin.  Look at WI, maybe a net change of a about 100.

Apparently over half the Detroit precincts were unrecountable because there were more votes cast than voters who signed in.  It would have been interesting to see just how incompetent or corrupt the Democrats in Detroit were if a real audit had been done.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/recount-unrecountable/95007392/

[Liberalrocks]

Not when Michigan law throws out an entire precinct if the machine/ballot count is off by one vote.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Of course. The results of the whole election are in doubt.

[Nyvin]

No way a recount could reverse the Trump margin.  No recount has ever reversed a 1000 vote margin much less a 10,000 vote margin.  Look at WI, maybe a net change of a about 100.

Apparently over half the Detroit precincts were unrecountable because there were more votes cast than voters who signed in.  It would have been interesting to see just how incompetent or corrupt the Democrats in Detroit were if a real audit had been done.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/recount-unrecountable/95007392/

There are Republican volunteers/officials at the Detroit precincts too -_-

[Hnv1]

This is beyond ridiculous. I don't think anyone rigged your election it's just that your system is so messed up. Federal elections should be ran accordingly to a unitary federal procedure and observed by the federal government.

[krazen1211]

They are trying to steal the election via voter fraud! Time for voter ID.

[Make My Bank Account Great Again]

They are trying to steal the election via voter fraud! Time for voter ID.

Mandatory voter ID cards aren't enough. We need mandatory voter fraud ID cards. That way when you go to vote you have your voter ID card to prove you can vote along with your voter fraud ID card to prove that you're not committing voter fraud when you do vote.

It's the only reasonable solution.

[krazen1211]

They are trying to steal the election via voter fraud! Time for voter ID.

Mandatory voter ID cards aren't enough. We need mandatory voter fraud ID cards. That way when you go to vote you have your voter ID card to prove you can vote along with your voter fraud ID card to prove that you're not committing voter fraud when you do vote.

It's the only reasonable solution.

Sounds good. I like your proposed 2 factor ID authentication system. I might also add something like a RSA SecureId token to make sure the person voting is who they say they are.

[Make My Bank Account Great Again]

They are trying to steal the election via voter fraud! Time for voter ID.

Mandatory voter ID cards aren't enough. We need mandatory voter fraud ID cards. That way when you go to vote you have your voter ID card to prove you can vote along with your voter fraud ID card to prove that you're not committing voter fraud when you do vote.

It's the only reasonable solution.

Sounds good. I like your proposed 2 factor ID authentication system. I might also add something like a RSA SecureId token to make sure the person voting is who they say they are.

I would also add in some kind of written test to make sure that we can verify that said person isn't illiterate.

[mistertheplague]

You're forgetting biometrics. Such a system would be useless without biometric proof that a person claiming to be voter John Doe really is voter John Doe. After all, the fraudster could have spent weeks learning how to forge a signature. Let's have retina scans or fingerprint verification.

[Pericles]

No. The election is over. Trump won. The margin is close but comfortable enough to be legitimate. I understand some people are upset, I am too. But Trump won a legitimate victory. If you don't accept that you're as bad as him when he refused to accept a potential loss. Focus  your time, money and energy on winning the next election, not trying in vaginas to change this one

[Inmate Trump]

Trump paid Russia to hack to results, so a recount of the actual votes would probably reverse the state in Clinton's direction.

(Until Trump releases his tax returns, nobody can tell me he didn't pay Russia to hack the results.)

[zorkpolitics]

Trump paid Russia to hack to results, so a recount of the actual votes would probably reverse the state in Clinton's direction.

(Until Trump releases his tax returns, nobody can tell me he didn't pay Russia to hack the results.)

Are you being sarcastic or just insane?

[Cashew]

Trump paid Russia to hack to results, so a recount of the actual votes would probably reverse the state in Clinton's direction.

(Until Trump releases his tax returns, nobody can tell me he didn't pay Russia to hack the results.)

Are you being sarcastic or just insane?

No less reasonable than some of Trump's claims.

[Ebowed]

Trump was opposed to a recount because the only way he becomes President is with a rigged election.  He stole it like he's stolen everything else in his life.

[Inmate Trump]

Trump paid Russia to hack to results, so a recount of the actual votes would probably reverse the state in Clinton's direction.

(Until Trump releases his tax returns, nobody can tell me he didn't pay Russia to hack the results.)

Are you being sarcastic or just insane?

With the accusations that certainly do exist about this, there is less to make me believe there was no Russian interference than there is to make me believe there was.

[Young Conservative]

Of course. The results of the whole election are in doubt.

Oh brother...

[136or142]

Larger point: Alex Halderman and other election integrity experts were pushing for a recount in order to conduct a forensic audit of the machines, not to just have the ballots counted over again. I support that 100 percent (and yes, I support it in all 50 states, not just the ones HRC lost). The voting infrastructure in much of this country is appalling. Getting a spotlight on this, uh, deplorable state of affairs is critical, IMO.

Once it became apparent that the overlords, starting with Obama himself, weren't going to let that happen, the recounts became a waste of time and money in my view.

There actually already are a number of states that conduct hand counted vote audits, though by random selection of precincts and not a state wide hand count.

Massachusetts is one. I believe, though I'd have to check again, that Mississippi is another. There are a few other states as well.

I agree with the comments here that these recounts won't/wouldn't have changed anything. Not only is altering votes on a large scale a lot more difficult than those who believe this conspiracy theory think it is, but there is a also a clear national and regional trend in the state by state results that is entirely consistent with the Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania votes.

Nationally, Hillary Clinton increased the Democratic Party's share of the Presidential vote over what Barack Obama did in 2012 in just five states (Arizona, California, Texas, Georgia and Utah) and in all of those cases by no more than a percent or two.

The first three states were obviously due to Latino voters, Georgia was likely a result of  the Democrats putting more effort into that state than President Obama did in 2012, though I understand that the Hillary Clinton campaign had pretty much pulled out of Georgia by the end, and Utah may seem odd given that Evan McMullin received 20%+ of the vote there, but Mitt Romney was regarded by many voters in Utah in 2012 as a 'native son' and received over 70% of the vote.

In the end in Georgia, Hillary Clinton basically received the exact same share of the vote (and lost by the same 5-7% margin) that Michelle Nunn and Jason Carter did running for U.S Senate and Governor respectively in 2014.  So, there is a consistency there.

From the regional perspective, Hillary Clinton's share of the vote also declined a good deal compared to what President Obama received in 2012 in Iowa and Minnesota, so that is consistent with her vote share decline in Wisconsin and Michigan, and her share of the vote declined in Ohio similar to what happened in Pennsylvania (Hillary Clinton also had a vote share decline in New Jersey, though not by as much as her decline in Pennsylvania.)

So, my point is, not only would the computer hackers have to have altered the vote totals in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, they also would have had to alter the vote totals in Iowa, Minnesota and Ohio, if not in practically every state.

Of course I can't say for certain that this didn't happen, but I would suspect that if this were taken to a civil court on the balance of probabilities, the judge would throw the case out.

[Coolface Sock #42069]

No.

[DPKdebator]

A few days ago, the Michigan House approved a law to implement strict voter ID laws.

[136or142]

A few days ago, the Michigan House approved a law to implement strict voter ID laws.

So, voter suppression you mean.