You down with TPP?

[angus]

Inspired by ERM65man's thread about a potential presidential veto.

You down with TPP?  Yeah, you know me.
Who’s down with TPP?  Every last homey.

[I’m not Stu]

Yes, I'm down with it.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

No, the American people don't want this, which is why both the left and the right campaigned against it last year. The American people own the country, not the people drawing up and signing these deals.

[angus]

No, the American people don't want this, which is why both the left and the right campaigned against it last year. The American people own the country, not the people drawing up and signing these deals.

That's a good post, and it deserves a response.  It is true that the will of the people should not be discounted, and it is true that there are some disadvantages of the Trans-Pacific Partnership bill--as currently written--but consider the advantages.

Primarily, it helps us to fill a power vacuum.  I'm not a big hard- or soft-power projectionist, but I can see that the world's richest nation for the first five thousand years of recorded history, which was knocked off balance by its 500 year isolationist policies, is about to become the world's richest nation again.  Back in the day, it didn't matter so much to the major players (Egypt, Rome, the Sacrum Imperium, Spain, etc.), partly because information didn't travel at the speed of light and partly because no one had the means to annihilate all humanity at that time, but nowadays it does.  There are a million other reasons to support the TPP, but I think that our national security is probably the most compelling.

I've been on Obama's bandwagon for a long time regarding this issue, and I'm glad to learn that some Democrats and some Republicans are becoming convinced as well, but delving into the minutiae required to defend it exhausts me.  Today I searched and found an interesting report.  Take a look: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-passing-the-trans-pacific-partnership-will-be-good-for-america/2016/09/27/5fcd31b4-8386-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html?utm_term=.a3caffb118a4

I know that it's one sided, but that's the point:  it is trying to persuade you.  When you have a moment, read it and see if you don't think that it is well argued.

[angus]

48 hours after the poll opened, I see that only 14 had an opinion, or cared to vote.  Among those, 43 percent favor the bill and 57 percent oppose it.  

What's interesting is that it (sort of) mirrors a recent Harvard-Politico poll from September.  They found that more than 70% had never heard of it.  "TPP who?"  Among the 29% who had heard of it, they were split, although it wasn't an even split:  about 60% against and about 40% support.  

Some other findings include:

— Americans are much more concerned about trade with China and Mexico, two of Trump’s most frequent targets, than with other countries.

— About 40% of Americans know China is not a member of the TPP deal; the rest believe it is or aren't sure.

— Midwesterners harbor the most concern about free trade, with more than half saying trade deals have hurt their communities.

— More Americans oppose boosting trade with the UK to help it with its exit from the European Union than support the idea, despite our closer relationship with UK than with Europe.

— More than half of Americans think the economy has stayed the same or gotten worse since the 2008 downturn.

— The vast majority of Americans favor government policies to bring jobs back to the U.S., but only a quarter think those policies would be very effective.

— Republicans are more against free trade agreements, generally, than Democrats, which is a stark contrast from a Pew research survey about ten years ago during which Democrats generally were more against free trade agreements than Republicans.

Find the results of the Harvard-Politico poll in pdf here.

[Devout Centrist]

I am a staunch supporter of the TPP and free trade deals in general. I do believe there should be measures to help workers who suffer because of these agreements, but overall, there are abbey positive for the world.

[Make My Bank Account Great Again]

The Democratic and Republican Party leadership have proven that they're not properly equipped or motivated to help the displaced American workers of these trade deals when they take effect.

I'd be in favor of free trade if they were, but because they are not, I cannot support the TPP. I also find the ISDS provision extremely concerning.

[Beet]

I support the TPP, but come on. Did you guys see the DNC? There were a sea of No TPP signs, and those people were crazy. They were shouting down like every speaker. And, like Andrea Beaumont said, it was both parties. Some things you support, you just have to admit are too unpopular. I support giving 16 year olds the right to vote, but I doubt anyone else does.

[Kingpoleon]

I support it, and the idea of not supporting something because it is unpopular is weak leadership at best.

[RINO Tom]

I am a staunch supporter of the TPP and free trade deals in general. I do believe there should be measures to help workers who suffer because of these agreements, but overall, there are abbey positive for the world.

[NeverAgain]

I am a staunch supporter of the TPP and free trade deals in general. I do believe there should be measures to help workers who suffer because of these agreements, but overall, there are abbey positive for the world.

Basically this, TPP should include more environmental provisions and more workers rights provisions. But the idea is fundamentally sound.

[Mike67]

No to TPP it's a bad deal that will send more jobs out of the Country

[angus]

I also find the ISDS provision extremely concerning.

How's that?  The ISDS is just a legal system to protect investors.  Intellectual property must be recognized in order to recruit investment, especially in places that don't have a long history with the concept of intellectual property.    

[JGibson]

I am against the TPP. Glad it's dead here in the USA.

[Thunderbird is the word]

Against, too many potentially disastrous consequences for the environment particularly in the realm of investor-settlement disputes.

[Wells]

Down with TPP!

[Intell]

I'm strongly against all free trade deals, and am for a trade policy based on economic nationalism, that focuses on self suffiency, and a contury of jobs, manufacturing and industry.

Burn all free trade deals to the the ground, and then stomp and rip them to shreds.

[The_Doctor]

3/4 yes. I'm negative on the prescription and biologics drugs section of the treaty and think that part should be renegotiated. Everything else however is good by me and I think free trade is an unalloyed good in general.

Trade has always boosted wealth and created incentives for innovation - in a nutshell. Lowering tariffs and reducing quotas, alongside ending other fair trade practices, is beneficial for America.

I'd vote yes on it. 

[Bigby]

No, if anything we need to make ourselves more competitive, NOT our competitors.

[Frodo]

I'm strongly against all free trade deals, and am for a trade policy based on economic nationalism, that focuses on self suffiency, and a contury of jobs, manufacturing and industry.

Burn all free trade deals to the the ground, and then stomp and rip them to shreds.

You down with the 21st century version of Smoot-Hawley? 

[GoTfan]

I support free trade ot an extent, but the TPP is just an outsourcing deal. It's going to turn into Australia's NAFTA. It would also negatively affect my suburb too, because there's  a steel tube manufacturing plant literally just up the road. Larkham-Orrcon tried to send the jobs there overseas a few years ago, but then a massive strike forced them to keep the 3 jobs here.

What worried me most is the level of hypocrisy though. We say we're opposed to radical Islam in all forms, yet we let Brunei in on it.

[Intell]

I'm strongly against all free trade deals, and am for a trade policy based on economic nationalism, that focuses on self suffiency, and a contury of jobs, manufacturing and industry.

Burn all free trade deals to the the ground, and then stomp and rip them to shreds.

You down with the 21st century version of Smoot-Hawley? 

Yes, but not done in such a bad time, and in a reckless manner.

[Figueira]

Eh, there are good and bad aspects of it. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert though.

[America Needs R'hllor]

I am a staunch supporter of the TPP and free trade deals in general. I do believe there should be measures to help workers who suffer because of these agreements, but overall, there are abbey positive for the world.

This.

[RINO Tom]

Eh, there are good and bad aspects of it. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert though.

I think this describes like 80% of voters...