Voting System Reform Bill

[Emsworth]

Voting System Reform Bill

Preamble

Whereas, the current system of preferential voting used for federal elections has been called into question,

Whereas, there are several potential alternative systems that could be used instead,

The Senate hereby recognizes the need for a discussion on reforming the current system of voting.

Section 1 - Forming a Commission

1. The Administration and Senate will jointly form a Commission, that will address the issue of reforming the voting system.

2. The President will appoint the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs, and two Atlasian citizens who do not currently hold federal office, to join the Commission.

3. The President Pro Tempore (PPT) will appoint two senators (including himself if he wishes), and two Atlasian citizens who do not currently hold federal office (and are not the same citizens appointed by the President), to join the Commission.

4. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court will also be a member of the Commission.

4. The members of the Commission will decide among themselves who will chair the Commission, by any means they see fit.

Section 2 - The role of the Commission

1. The Commission will discuss any and all systems of voting that they feel would be appropriate for use in Atlasian federal elections, including the current system of preferential voting.

2. The Commission may conduct these discussions in any way that they see fit.

Section 3 - Report

1. Once the Commission has reached a conclusive decision that meets the approval of the majority of its members, the Chairman will report the findings to the Senate.  The report will state which system(s) of voting they recommend for use in Atlasian federal elections.

2. Once the Chairman has delivered his report, the Commission will disband.
Sponsor: Sen. MasterJedi

[Sam Spade]

Are we still going to be debating the Secret Ballot Procedure Bill? 

After all, we do have another bill spot open now that the budget has been done with.

[Emsworth]

Are we still going to be debating the Secret Ballot Procedure Bill? 

The twenty-four hour voting period is still in effect, I'm afraid.

[Sam Spade]

Are we still going to be debating the Secret Ballot Procedure Bill? 

The twenty-four hour voting period is still in effect, I'm afraid.

Ok, well we'll get rid of that soon.

[MasterJedi]

Are we still going to be debating the Secret Ballot Procedure Bill? 

The twenty-four hour voting period is still in effect, I'm afraid.

Ok, well we'll get rid of that soon.

How true is that.

[Colin]

Personally I feel we should include the secret ballot in here with preferential voting as a topic of this committee. As we saw in the last Senate we could not achieve any sort of compromise or an end to debating. Personally I believe that if we again bring the Secret Ballot Act to the floor it will just become a huge debate that will, probably, drag on throughout this Senate. I therefore believe that it would be easier, much more productive and much less stressful for the commission to also discuss the secret ballot and it's implications on Atlasian elections. Some of you may consider that I am trying to stall this but I believe that any such major reform of the electoral system would need to have some sort of major consensus and I just don't see that now in the current Senate. This commission, like the one before it on Diplomatic Relations with other Micronations would help to produce a good compromise document that takes into account the ideas, influence and suggests of many different Atlasians. Both the introduction of the secret ballot and the ending of preferential voting would be major constitutional changes to the current electoral system in Atlasia.

Along with this I also believe that the entire Senate should be a part of this commission so that each Senator, the people who will, at the end of the day, have to decide on how to vote on any resolution coming out of this commission, will be able to question certain Atlasians and to also be able to shape any eventual document. Neither of these two things should be rushed through the Senate or rammed down the throats of the people. We need to have consensus and we need to hear the ideas and voices of many different Atlasians of many different viewpoints in order to truely make an educated decision concerning electoral reform.

[Emsworth]

I fully support Sen. Colin Wixted's suggestion.

[Sam Spade]

I agree with Colin on this. 

I also think it's important to reach a consensus on the secret ballot  because as I have said before, I believe a secret ballot will have to become a Constitutional amendment rather than a bill because under the present Constitution it is probably unconstitutional.

[Colin]

I agree with Colin on this. 

I also think it's important to reach a consensus on the secret ballot  because as I have said before, I believe a secret ballot will have to become a Constitutional amendment rather than a bill because under the present Constitution it is probably unconstitutional.

Yes this is part of my reasoning as well. I know Joe has said several times that he doesn't think it needs to be an amendment but I believe that if a secret ballot is passed through an act of this Senate it will be unconstitutional. This way if we do it through a commission like this one we can find some sort of compromise or an amendment that is influenced by many more citizens of Atlasia than the current act.

[MHS2002]

I agree with Colin here.

Since the secret ballot is probably unconstitutional, would it be easier to propose an amendment to just remove the phrase in the Constitution about public posting, or should we just make the whole secret ballot bill a Constitutional amendment in itself?

[Emsworth]

I agree with Colin here.

Since the secret ballot is probably unconstitutional, would it be easier to propose an amendment to just remove the phrase in the Constitution about public posting, or should we just make the whole secret ballot bill a Constitutional amendment in itself?

If we make the whole bill an amendment, I'm afraid that further changes, even minor ones, would be very difficult to make. It would probably be simpler just to pass the amendment first, and then worry about exact details in legislation later.

[Peter]

I sent the following Amendment to Joe some time ago, and I believe it fulfils the requirement of constitutionalising the secret ballot bill, whilst at the same time retaining the Constitution's prohibition on using the polling feature for elections.

1. The requirement that elections to the Senate and the Presidency be by public post is repealed.
2. Under no circumstances shall a polling method which allows a person to anonymously vote be used in any election or vote mandated under this Constitution. This clause shall not be construed to require that a person's vote is publicly disclosed to all citizens.
3. This Amendment shall only become operative if ratified within one calendar year from the date of its submission to the Regions by the Senate.

Clause 1 is self-explainatory.
Clause 2 will stop the inane polling feature being used which is obviously wide open to fraud under any circumstances, whilst keeping the possibility of this sort of secret ballot constitutional.
I like attaching clause 3 to amendments just as good practice.

I will also shortly be making some comments on the Secret Ballot Bill thread itself

[Emsworth]

I suggested earlier that the President has no choice to make in which executive officers he appoints. He is forced by the bill to appoint the SoFA and Deputy SoFA.

I would suggest that the SoFA gets an automatic seat, and that the President may appoint any two executive officers to the Commission.

[Colin]

I have an amendment to propose, the wording isn't the greatest but it gets the point across:

Addition to Section 2:

3. The Commission shall also discuss the creation of the option of secret ballots in federal elections and all necessary procedures dealing with the creation of such an option.

[Emsworth]

3. The Commission shall also discuss the creation of the option of secret ballots in federal elections and all necessary procedures dealing with the creation of such an option.

The question is on the Wixted Amendment. All those in favor, say Aye; those opposed, say No (or Nay, if you like).

[MasterJedi]

Aye

[Sam Spade]

Aye.

[Colin]

Aye

I have another amendment to propose after this one concerning the make up of a this said committee.

[MHS2002]

Aye

[DanielX]

Aye

[Emsworth]

There have voted:
Aye: 5
No: 0

The amendment to the bill has passed.

[Colin]

I would like to propose two version of an amendment to strike and replace Section 1:

Version 1-1

Section 1

1. The Administration and Senate will jointly form a Commission, that will address the issue of reforming the voting system.

2. This said commission shall be comprised of all the current sitting Senators of the Republic of Atlasia, the Chief Justice of the Atlasian Supreme Court, the governors of all five regions, the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs, and the Vice President of Atlasia.

3. The members of the Commission will decide among themselves who will chair the Commission, by any means they see fit.


Version 1-2

1. The Administration and Senate will jointly form a Commission, that will address the issue of reforming the voting system.

2. This said commission shall be comprised of all the current sitting Senators of Atlasia, the Chief Justice of the Atlasian Supreme Court, the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs, the Vice President of Atlasia, a citizen of Atlasia who does not hold any of the above stated positions to be appointed by the President of Atlasia and a citizen of Atlasia who does not current hold any of the above stated positions to be appointed by the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.

3. The members of the Commission will decide among themselves who will chair the Commission, by any means they see fit.

[Emsworth]

I personally feel that Version 2 is better than 1. The commission called for by V1 seems a bit too large; also, V2 takes into account the fact that some private citizens may wish to participate. 

[Peter]

There is going to be nobody left to give evidence to this Commission by the time we actually form one I fear.

[MasterJedi]

There is going to be nobody left to give evidence to this Commission by the time we actually form one I fear.

I agree, maybe we should set a time after right after the midterms or farther in the future, after the Presidential elections in October and after the cabinet has been confirmed.

This would ensure that we have the people around to actually participate in the comission.