Voting System Reform Bill

[Emsworth]

A quorum has failed to vote though, the measure must fail.

The Senate rules provide that Senators who have been sworn in, but who have not voted, are deemed to have abstained.

In any event, the Constitution provides: "The Senate shall have fulfilled a quorum if a majority of its members are capable of discharging their offices and sworn into office. A quorum of Senators shall have voted on any Resolution, Bill, Impeachment or Constitutional Amendment for it to be considered valid." It does not refer to motions or amendments to bills.

[Gabu]

With four in favor to one against, and with three absent, this amendment has passed.

A quorum has failed to vote though, the measure must fail.

Oh, right, I forgot that we needed at least six senators to vote... well, we do have that after King voted, so doesn't that count?

Plus, as Emsworth pointed out, a quorum is not (explicitly) needed for amendments to bills.

[Emsworth]

Plus, as Emsworth pointed out, a quorum is not (explicitly) needed for amendments to bills.

And, even then, the rules are clear: "Any and all Senators who do not vote will be considered to have abstained."

[Gabu]

Plus, as Emsworth pointed out, a quorum is not (explicitly) needed for amendments to bills.

And, even then, the rules are clear: "Any and all Senators who do not vote will be considered to have abstained."

Yes, but that says nothing about the number of senators you need; a quorum generally refers to a majority of the total number of members in something.  In our case, a quorum means six senators - if less than six senators vote on a resolution, bill, impeachment, or constitutional amendment, the measure will automatically fail even if the percentage of those in favor is adequate.

However, the Constitution does not say that this requirement holds for amendments, so it seems to me that its absence implies that it doesn't, as nowhere is it stated that anything other than those four things requires a quorum.

[Emsworth]

Yes, but that says nothing about the number of senators you need; a quorum generally refers to a majority of the total number of members in something.

I know that it says nothing about the quorum; however, it does have an affect on the quorum. By saying that those who have not cast a vote have abstained, the rules say, in effect, that every Senator's default vote is "Abstain." If you do not explicitly vote Aye or No, then you count as an "Abstain" for all purposes, including quorums, under this rule.

[Gabu]

Yes, but that says nothing about the number of senators you need; a quorum generally refers to a majority of the total number of members in something.

I know that it says nothing about the quorum; however, it does have an affect on the quorum. By saying that those who have not cast a vote have abstained, the rules say, in effect, that every Senator's default vote is "Abstain." If you do not explicitly vote Aye or No, then you count as an "Abstain" for all purposes, including quorums, under this rule.

Yes... but I'm not sure what your point is.  Senators who don't vote are counted as having abstained, but there's a difference as far as quorums go between stating that you abstain and simply not voting.  It seems to me that if we simply count everyone as having voted "abstain", then the concept of reaching quorum is entirely meaningless and that there'd be no reason to have that in the Constitution.

[Emsworth]

Yes... but I'm not sure what your point is.  Senators who don't vote are counted as having abstained, but there's a difference as far as quorums go between stating that you abstain and simply not voting.  It seems to me that if we simply count everyone as having voted "abstain", then the concept of reaching quorum is entirely meaningless and that there'd be no reason to have that in the Constitution.

I don't comment on whether I support it or not, but that is, I believe, the effect of the rules.

[Sam Spade]

Plus, as Emsworth pointed out, a quorum is not (explicitly) needed for amendments to bills.

And, even then, the rules are clear: "Any and all Senators who do not vote will be considered to have abstained."

Agreed, but this "do not vote" provision can only happen 5 days after the Amendment vote has started when the Amendment vote must close, unless you have majority voting for it already.

[Emsworth]

The bill as it currently stands:
Voting System Reform Bill

Preamble

Whereas, the current system of preferential voting used for federal elections has been called into question,

Whereas, there are several potential alternative systems that could be used instead,

The Senate hereby recognizes the need for a discussion on reforming the current system of voting.

Section 1 - Forming a Commission

I have a second amendment to Section 1 to put forward:

1. The Administration and Senate will jointly form a Commission, that will address the issue of reforming the voting system.

2. This said commission will be composed of:
(a) Four Senators who will be chosen by the entirity of the Senate to serve on the commission; one of the said Senators must be the current sitting President Pro Tempore of the Senate,
(b) The Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Forum Affairs,
(c) The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court,
(d) Two Atlasian citizens who currently do not hold any of the above included positions both of whom will be nominated by the President with the consent of the Senate President Pro Tempore.

3. Commission members may vote at any time to add more members to the commission or to expel commission members as they deem necessary.

4. The members of the Commission will decide among themselves who will chair the Commission, by any means they see fit.

Section 2 - The role of the Commission

1. The Commission will discuss any and all systems of voting that they feel would be appropriate for use in Atlasian federal elections, including the current system of preferential voting.

2. The Commission will have the right to call before it any member of Atlasia to produce testimony before this said Commission. The Commission will set procedure for calling Atlasians to tesify as well as questioning procedures.

3. The Commission shall also discuss the creation of the option of secret ballots in federal elections and all necessary procedures dealing with the creation of such an option.

4. The Commission may conduct these discussions in any way that they see fit.

Section 3 - Report

1. Once the Commission has reached a conclusive decision that meets the approval of the majority of its members, the Chairman will report the findings to the Senate.  The report will state which system(s) of voting they recommend for use in Atlasian federal elections.

2. Once the Chairman has delivered his report, the Commission will disband.

[Bono]

The bureocracy in this house is amazing. How is it possible that you're still voting on the bill, weeks after it was decided to form a comitee.

[Emsworth]

The bureocracy in this house is amazing. How is it possible that you're still voting on the bill, weeks after it was decided to form a comitee.

That is a question you must address to the previous Senate. The current Senate has been considering this bill for only a little longer than a week.

[Sam Spade]

The bureocracy in this house is amazing. How is it possible that you're still voting on the bill, weeks after it was decided to form a comitee.

That's simply not what happened.  We were voting on a bill to change the voting system, when it decided that it would be better to send this to a committee first.

Even with all this "bureaucracy", things amazingly run much better than they used to pre-Sixth Session, when it was impossible to get votes on legislation and few bills ever saw the light of day.

[Emsworth]

There has been no debate on the bill itself for a while (though we did have some comments on procedure, etc.).

The question, therefore, is on final passage of the bill. All those in favor, say Aye; those opposed, say No.

[MasterJedi]

Aye

[MHS2002]

Aye

[Sam Spade]

Aye.

[DanielX]

Aye

[MasterJedi]

Vote Tally:

4 Aye
0 Nay
0 Abstain

[Emsworth]

The bill needs either one more Aye vote, or the expulsion of FuturePrez, or the resignation of Cosmo Kramer, or the passage of five days since the opening of the vote.

[jokerman]

Aye

[Emsworth]

With five Ayes, the bill has sufficient support to pass. Senators have twenty-four hours to vote or to change their votes.

[Emsworth]

There have voted:
Aye: 5
No: 0

Therefore, the Voting System Reform Bill has passed. I present the bill to the President for his signature.

[Siege40]

Siege40