Most right-wing conservative religion?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Your worship of money and wealth is what I was talking about

[A18]

Then you're talking about something non-existent.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Then you're talking about something non-existent.

No I'm not:

Wealth is the product of industry, ambition, character, and untiring effort.

[A18]

What does that obvious truism I posted have to do with what you're saying now?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What does that obvious truism I posted have to do with what you're saying now?

Other than it not being true? It reads as if you were drooling when you were writing it...

[A18]

So then contrary to the implication of your earlier post, you do think goods and services just come about on their own.

I was simply praising the great virtues of human innovation, work, and productivity. The obsessive consumption of wealth destroys character, but the creation of wealth never does any such thing.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So then contrary to the implication of your earlier post, you do think goods and services just come about on their own.

No... when did I say that?

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No you weren't

[A18]

One message ago.

Please learn to post something other than "No, you're wrong." It just further highlights the fact that you have the debating skills of a four year old.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The wit Philip, the wit. Always after the last word I see.

[John Dibble]

economically: Satanism

Good point!

Actually, Satan is a socialist, because the socialist welfare state breeds sloth, decay, and corruption and Satan likes all of those.

I was simply praising the great virtues of human innovation, work, and productivity.

No you weren't

Seems to me he was.

Wealth is the product of industry, ambition, character, and untiring effort.

Al, I don't see how this is at all worshipping money, as you assert. Nowhere here did Philip say that money is the thing you should pursue in life. I take this as him saying 'having these positive traits will have the end result of a better, more prosperous life'. Though I don't know if he meant this, I believe that having such traits also lead to having great emotional and spiritual wealth - they often lead to a sense of accomplishment and self-worth that might not otherwise be attained.

Also, nowhere did Philip say anything about what to do with one's hard earned wealth. He didn't say you should horde it or that it could buy happiness or anything of the sort. You never know, if he was wealthy perhaps he'd do something very benevolent with whatever excess he had. I'm certainly very much a capitalist, and yes I'd like to be rich, but I'd live by the words of a very famous capitalist with any excess I had:

"Surplus wealth is a sacred trust which its possessor is bound to administer in his lifetime for the good of the community." - Andrew Carnegie

also

"There is no class so pitiably wretched as that which possesses money and nothing else." - Andrew Carnegie

Being a capitalist doesn't by any means make a person an uncaring, heartless bastard. I think you are reading far too much into what Philip has said - you simply hold a differing philosophy and I believe that's clounding up your judgement and thusly your interpretation of what he said.

[Democratic Hawk]

Economically: Christianity

I believe Christianity to be both economically and socially liberal.  The Southern Baptist Convention doesn't speak for every other sect and denomination.

I see Christianity as being economically left-of-centre but tolerant (yet somewhat centre-right) on social issues

Dave

[Max Power]

It's under capitalism that the Bible became the all-time best-selling book.

And, ironically, the most shop lifted.

Good point. Very little more socialist than shoplifting, which is of course no different than voting to tax other people's goods and services away. Capitalism of course is the only moral economic system—the system that allows people to subdue the earth and be masters of their own destinies, without enslaving others.

The beauty of the free market is that no exchange ever takes place unless both parties benefit. Wealth is the product of industry, ambition, character, and untiring effort.

I agree, that's exactly right.

And just so you know, The "Owned- Canadian-Style" was for Al.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Al, I don't see how this is at all worshipping money, as you assert.

Praising money is worshipping money. You cannot serve both God and Money.

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So? Missing the point of my complaint about what he said entirely.

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Nothing to do with a "philosophy" at all

[John Dibble]

Al, I don't see how this is at all worshipping money, as you assert.

Praising money is worshipping money. You cannot serve both God and Money.

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So? Missing the point of my complaint about what he said entirely.

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Nothing to do with a "philosophy" at all

1. Nowhere did he praise money either - he simply stated that wealth can be attained through "industry, ambition, character, and untiring effort." Seems to me that instead he was praising those things and noting that because those things are good they result in the reward of attaining wealth. If you disagree, point out where he said that "Money is great, we should all praise the virtue of money and serve it!".

2. Praising something does not mean worshipping it - don't be dumb, you're smarter than that. Does praising a child for doing good in school mean you worship the child? No. Praise != worship. Further, liking money isn't worshipping it either - I like money, I like having lots of extra money, and I like earning money, but that by no means makes me a servant of money. I realize there are more important things than money, but does that mean I should be ashamed of a desire to attain it? Heck no!

3. It has everything to do with your philosophy.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

1. He did not say "can be", he said "is"; the impression I got from reading some of his posts in this thread and some other things he's posted about this kinda stuff before, is that he's obsessed with money, wealth and the desire to get more and more and more of it.
He's free to think that, but I'd rather he didn't have the cheek to claim that his money lust is at all consistent with Christian teachings.
2. Wanting and desiring more money is greed. Greed is a sin. Everyone is occasionally or often greedy. Everyone sins. Sin can be forgiven.
Etc.
3. Nope. Has everything to do with my religious beliefs though.

[John Dibble]

1. He did not say "can be", he said "is"; the impression I got from reading some of his posts in this thread and some other things he's posted about this kinda stuff before, is that he's obsessed with money, wealth and the desire to get more and more and more of it.
He's free to think that, but I'd rather he didn't have the cheek to claim that his money lust is at all consistent with Christian teachings.

I get no such impression. Nowhere have I ever gotten the impression that he thinks money is the most important thing in life. He's a capitalist, but that by no means makes him a money worshipper.

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Wanting more than one deserves is greed. Wanting what one has earned rightfully is not.

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Your religion is part of your philosophy.

[Gabu]

The beauty of the free market is that no exchange ever takes place unless both parties benefit.

I would amend this slightly: no exchange ever takes place unless both parties think they're benefitting.  The actual reality may be very different, and many less-than-respectable sorts will do their darndest to make it be so, as evidenced by the negative connotations surrounding the concept of "the fine print".

The fact that it's extremely easy to have one party get screwed because it thought it was benefitting when there was actually some very important detail being missed is one of the failings of capitalism, really.  Capitalism isn't perfect; it just happens to be less worse than all of the other economic models, in general.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

but that by no means makes him a money worshipper.

Depends what you mean by worship

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Depends what you mean by "earned rightfully". It isn't greedy to want enough money to live a decent existance or whatever, but to want more money for the sake of making more money, because you want to be rich or whatever, is clearly greedy, even if you think your somehow entitled to it.

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Not really. Whatever personal philosophy I have, comes from and is (as far as I'm concerned) subordinate to my religious beliefs

[John Dibble]

but that by no means makes him a money worshipper.

Depends what you mean by worship

I don't think there's really more than one definition here.

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Depends what you mean by "earned rightfully". It isn't greedy to want enough money to live a decent existance or whatever, but to want more money for the sake of making more money, because you want to be rich or whatever, is clearly greedy, even if you think your somehow entitled to it.
[/quote]

You earn money rightfully by your labor. You do not earn it rightfully by stealing, being a con-artist, or the various other unscrupulous ways of attaining it. If you desire to attain money through honest means then it isn't greed.

[Huckleberry Finn]

After Satanism the most economically conservative religion is Hinduism, because of the caste system. Traditional Calvinism is also very conservative economically.

[A18]

How is socialism economically conservative?

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

A caste system is not conservative.  Pure Capitalism works based on free and open competition.

After Satanism the most economically conservative religion is Hinduism, because of the caste system. Traditional Calvinism is also very conservative economically.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A caste system is not conservative.  Pure Capitalism works based on free and open competition.

Since when did conservatism=capitalism?

[A18]

Conservatism is to capitalism as liberalism is to socialism. Everyone gets this except you.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Conservatism is to capitalism as liberalism is to socialism.

Not really related?