Is Taiwan part of China?

[TDAS04]

Well?

[Santander]

The ROC is the sole legitimate government in Greater China and I support their claims over all of China minus Macau, Hong Kong and Mongolia, but I am also sympathetic to Taiwanese independence as long as the CPC is destroyed and every single member of its leadership executed first.

[Classic Conservative]

The ROC is the sole legitimate government in Greater China and I support their claims over all of China minus Macau, Hong Kong, Mongolia, Tibet but I am also sympathetic to Taiwanese independence as long as the CPC is destroyed and every single member of its leadership executed first.

[progressive85]

Taiwan should be its own country.  Why does China force it to be a state?  Can't the Taiwanese vote for independence?

[Beet]

Taiwan is already de facto independent. According to the latest poll I saw, 55% favor the perpetual maintenance of the status quo, only 16% want formal independence. The mainland Chinese live in a completely different and highly nationalistic world where the PRC government has cornered itself with decades of propaganda, policy, and law that Taiwan is a province of China and Taiean independence would be the equivalent of an attack on China itself. As far as I can tell, virtually all mainlanders support this position.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Taiwan should be its own country.  Why does China force it to be a state?  Can't the Taiwanese vote for independence?

Trouble is there are lot of Chinese expats and their descendants on the island, who fervently believe they are part of China and would be quite happy to drink from Beijing's bosum.

[SATW]

I believe ROC is legitimate and support Taiwan becoming independent if the people desire it. I also believe that the west should slowly move away from One China over a prelonged period of time.

[parochial boy]

Nowhere is "rightfully" part of anywhere else. Populations change, identities change; you don't get to claim you own somewhere else because of what happened at on arbitrary point in history.

[Figueira]

Using the word "rightfully" in this context opens up many cans of worms, but I do tend to consider Taiwan to be its own country.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Yes, because of One China policy, accepted by both sides.

[Illiniwek]

No, while I wish Mao didn't succeed, at this point the mainland is the PRC's and Taiwan is the ROC's.

[Zioneer]

Here's the reality: the PRC owns all of mainland China, and it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon. The "ROC" owns Taiwan and is backed by the US, and that doesn't look like it'll change anytime soon. The legal fiction that Taiwan is either a rebellious province of the PRC or that it is the rightful government of all of China is insane. Generations have passed since the ROC owned anything other than China. The status quo is too liable to end up causing a conflict if one side gets too nationalist. This is a totally unneeded potential war or proxy fight.

The PRC should acknowledge that although at this point it is the rightful government of mainland China, it does not have any authority over Taiwan, and should allow Taiwan to do its own thing. Similarly, the Republic of China should acknowledge that it will never have authority over any part of mainland China, and should be a Republic of Taiwan instead.

This is a completely unneeded flashpoint for conflict if things get out of hand. As is the North and South Korea divide for that matter.

[Xing]

No, it should be considered an independent country, which is what a majority of its people want, anyway.

[nolesfan2011]

Taiwan is a country, China (mainland) is a country... neither has control over the other. Two sovereign states

[Kingpoleon]

Taiwan is its own independent country. On a similar note, Tibet ought to be independent, although the Chinese occupation should be recognized until it is not the case.

[Intell]

The ROC is the sole legitimate government in Greater China and I support their claims over all of China minus Macau, Hong Kong, Mongolia, Tibet but I am also sympathetic to Taiwanese independence as long as the CPC is destroyed and every single member of its leadership executed first.

This is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

[Blue3]

Taiwan doesn't want to be known as independent. It also says there's only One China, and thinks it's the mainland that's gone rogue.

Both sides have officially accepted "One China" for decades.


Yes, Taiwan is part of the region of China... but it's not part of the PRC, obviously.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

The ROC is the sole legitimate government in Greater China and I support their claims over all of China minus Macau, Hong Kong, Mongolia, Tibet but I am also sympathetic to Taiwanese independence as long as the CPC is destroyed and every single member of its leadership executed first.

This is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

It's Santander, what were you expecting?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I don't care if the PRC storms across the sea and literally makes the island disappear.

[I’m not Stu]

No. Taiwan is rightfully independent.

[Xing]

Taiwan doesn't want to be known as independent. It also says there's only One China, and thinks it's the mainland that's gone rogue.

That depends on what you mean by "Taiwan". Its politicians/government? Yes, many of them believe that the ROC is the rightful government of both Mainland China and Taiwan. Its citizens? A majority of them want nothing to do with China.

[jaichind]

My home Province of Taiwan is an inalienable part of China.  ROC is the legitimate government of China.  I do accept that the illegal PRC regime which is in rebellion against the legal ROC regime does exist and has de facto control of the Mainland.  The current situation is an unfinished civil war and the best way to describe it would be "One China, two regimes."  One way or another we will have to work out how to unify the two regimes over the coming few decades, preferably with the transformation of the CCP from A party of Chinese nationalism to THE party of Chinese nationalism.  To complete that transformation would require 1) Junk Mao and his cronies from the pantheon  2) Junk this foreign and in fact non-Chinese Marxist egalitarian ideology which will also involve removing this stupid "People" stuff from all the government names 3) Junk this absurd One Child (now de facto Two Child policy) 4) Junk this absurd simplified script and restore traditional script.  If the CCP cannot complete this transformation over the next couple of decades I will pretty much go back to my pre-1989 position of calling for the overthrow of CCP as the way for unification.   Until then I am fine with status quo to wait for this transformation.  The CCP has come a long way since the 1970s to a point that I can give them critical support on a case by case basis.  They have to complete the process.

[Tender Branson]

Taiwan as of right now is as much part of China as Austria is part of Germany.

Not at all.

It's a fully independent country IMO.

[jaichind]

Slightly off topic but over the last 2-3 years I have been getting more negative the relative value of the PRC regime to advance Chinese interest in East Asia on the long run given how it is being perceived in critical East Asian countries relative to ROC.

Over the last 2-3 years due to the nature of my role I have been making a lot of business trips to Japan and couple of times to ROK.  What I have noticed is that the way I was viewed by the local educated elites in both countries was quite negative when they thought I was from Mainland China but quickly warmed when they realized that I was from ROC.  At the same time these Japanese and Koreans I interacted with had a high level of knowledge and appreciation of classical Chinese culture/history and were eager to discuss them with me.  I saw a great level of identity with classical Chinese which coincided with high level of hostility toward the PRC regime and the population of the PRC at large.  I found this quite confusing at first because after some talking with them I think it had little to do with the current conflict between the Japan and ROK regimes with the PRC.   But after I while I figured it out. 

I think a good mental model using a historical European context to understand the prism of these Japanese and Korea elites is the following:  They view Japan/Korea as the equivalent of Renaissance England.  They view Classical China as the Roman Empire which is worthy of emulation, respect and awe, especially from the point view of a Renaissance England.  They view the PRC as how Renaissance England might view the Ostrogothic Kingdom, a barbaric and unworthy successor to a once great Roman civilization.   They view the ROC as how Renaissance England might view the Byzantine Empire, closer to the great Roman Empire/civilization but clearly a few pegs down but still close enough to be worthy of respect.
 
If this were the case then unless the PRC can change this perception the cause of East Asian peace among the various East Asian power on the basis of a shared Confucian heritage would be weak.  That would be problematic and would be another reason to get rid of the PRC regime and replace it with something like ROC.   

[jaichind]

It is totally true that public opinion on Taiwan Province has swung toward independence since the 1990s.  Part of the reason is unification now looks more real than the 1990s given the dramatic rise of PRC economic and military power.  I posted this before.  But a poll back in late 2015 is quite illustrative:

 

It has on which position one has on Unification/Independence issue

Unification           16.1%
Independence      46.4%
Go either way      37.5%

This is somewhat more skewed toward pro-Independence than other polls but I think a point of comparison to the second question is quite interesting

When asked what is likely to take place in the future it has

Unification          49.7%
Independence     35.9%
Status Quo         14.4%

This is a clear reversal compared to the early 1990s when Unification position usually outnumbered the independence position by 2 to 1 but very few thought unification was likely in the medium or far future.