EDIT: Republicans in NCGA now refuse to take up bill to repeal HB2

[Bojack Horseman]

Charlotte city councilmen and LGBT community learn the hard way to only trust Republicans as far as you can throw them:

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/12/north-carolina-republicans-dupe-charlotte-city-council-refuse-repeal-hb2/

[KingSweden]

Wow! Good news

[Virginiá]

I wonder if Republicans will use this special session to take more powers away from Cooper, or possibly a nice Christmas gift in the form of new voter suppression legislation.

But otherwise - good news this is just about over. I don't think Charlotte should have had to repeal anything, but the state law hurts LGBT people too much to leave on the books. Maybe down the road if/when the GOP's majorities in the legislature have been whittled down substantially and a Democrat controls the Gov's office, Charlotte can pass a new (if not somewhat different) ordinance.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Virginia sums up my thoughts exactly.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Ultimately there has to be some sort of measure to keep bathrooms segregated, under a Charlotte style bill, a cisgender person can enter the wrong locker room and even enter the (often communal) showers naked, and no one is allowed to do anything until after assault or rape occurs because they (the cisgender person) "might be transgender". But HB2, prohibiting not only all LGBT ordinances but also all minimum wage ordinances, went too far and needs to go.

[Beet]

Ultimately there has to be some sort of measure to keep bathrooms segregated, under a Charlotte style bill, a cisgender person can enter the wrong locker room and even enter the (often communal) showers naked, and no one is allowed to do anything until after assault or rape occurs because they (the cisgender person) "might be transgender". But HB2, prohibiting not only all LGBT ordinances but also all minimum wage ordinances, went too far and needs to go.

^^

I agree with this. What's to stop someone who's obviously cisgender from claiming to be transgender, in order to do something that is given an allowance only to accomodate transgender people?

[Maxwell]

I think this is actually a move to take the wind out of Cooper's sails. Think about it - this is something that Cooper would've gotten credit from the public for fighting. Now that McCrory takes it out and shoots it in a special session, Cooper doesn't get that essential victory.

[Bojack Horseman]

Ultimately there has to be some sort of measure to keep bathrooms segregated, under a Charlotte style bill, a cisgender person can enter the wrong locker room and even enter the (often communal) showers naked, and no one is allowed to do anything until after assault or rape occurs because they (the cisgender person) "might be transgender". But HB2, prohibiting not only all LGBT ordinances but also all minimum wage ordinances, went too far and needs to go.

^^

I agree with this. What's to stop someone who's obviously cisgender from claiming to be transgender, in order to do something that is given an allowance only to accomodate transgender people?

Someone call the ACLU!!!! This is hate speech!!!!!! mods pls ban!!!!1111!!!!! /sarcasm

This is the one thing about the PC police that does piss me off. People can't disagree on anything anymore, be it this issue or the economy or whatnot without it becoming an "I'm offended, you just violated Title IX!!!!" tantrum.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Ultimately there has to be some sort of measure to keep bathrooms segregated, under a Charlotte style bill, a cisgender person can enter the wrong locker room and even enter the (often communal) showers naked, and no one is allowed to do anything until after assault or rape occurs because they (the cisgender person) "might be transgender". But HB2, prohibiting not only all LGBT ordinances but also all minimum wage ordinances, went too far and needs to go.

How about y'all take action to stop a real threat, like banning President-elect Pussgrabber from all women's locker rooms first?

Or is fictional, hypothetical sexual assault from fake transpeople like Republican Presidential Candidate Mike Huckabee a bigger threat than actual assaults from rich white male straight Republicans?

[Mr. Reactionary]

Ultimately there has to be some sort of measure to keep bathrooms segregated, under a Charlotte style bill, a cisgender person can enter the wrong locker room and even enter the (often communal) showers naked, and no one is allowed to do anything until after assault or rape occurs because they (the cisgender person) "might be transgender". But HB2, prohibiting not only all LGBT ordinances but also all minimum wage ordinances, went too far and needs to go.

^^

I agree with this. What's to stop someone who's obviously cisgender from claiming to be transgender, in order to do something that is given an allowance only to accomodate transgender people?

What purpose would that serve? It's not like rape is suddenly legal in bathrooms now. And I doubt there are that many violent predators who are concerned by what the sign in front of the bathroom says during their violent public rape.

[Beet]

Ultimately there has to be some sort of measure to keep bathrooms segregated, under a Charlotte style bill, a cisgender person can enter the wrong locker room and even enter the (often communal) showers naked, and no one is allowed to do anything until after assault or rape occurs because they (the cisgender person) "might be transgender". But HB2, prohibiting not only all LGBT ordinances but also all minimum wage ordinances, went too far and needs to go.

^^

I agree with this. What's to stop someone who's obviously cisgender from claiming to be transgender, in order to do something that is given an allowance only to accomodate transgender people?

What purpose would that serve? It's not like rape is suddenly legal in bathrooms now. And I doubt there are that many violent predators who are concerned by what the sign in front of the bathroom says during their violent public rape.

Sure they are. In some countries, having segregated train cars does prevent sexual assault. Perverts, flashers, and other harassers may take advantage of unisex bathrooms.

[SteveRogers]

Ultimately there has to be some sort of measure to keep bathrooms segregated, under a Charlotte style bill, a cisgender person can enter the wrong locker room and even enter the (often communal) showers naked, and no one is allowed to do anything until after assault or rape occurs because they (the cisgender person) "might be transgender". But HB2, prohibiting not only all LGBT ordinances but also all minimum wage ordinances, went too far and needs to go.

Why? There is no set of laws that will allow you to ensure that you'll never share a bathroom with someone who makes you feel uncomfortable. You use the example of locker rooms. Let's say you are a woman who doesn't want any men in your woman's locker room at the gym at a public university. We have 2 scenarios:

Scenario 1 - A Charlotte-style anti-discrimination bill: Someone who appears to you to be a man walks into the locker room. As you point out, you won't know whether they were born biologically a male or female. Regardless of whether they are a cisgender or transgender male, the law says there is nothing you can do to have that person removed from the locker room.

Scenario 2 - HB2: The law says everyone can only use the facility that corresponds to the sex on their birth certificate. Someone who appears to you to be a man enters the locker room. What can you do? Call the police? How does that work exactly? Guess what, it doesn't because you will still never know for sure if they are in the "wrong" facility. They could be a cisgender man who is breaking the law and causing trouble by pretending to be transgender. Or they could be a transgender woman who is violating the law and who doesn't meet your standard for "passing" as a woman. But they could also be a transgender man who must now use this locker room by law because it says female on their birth certificate. Has anyone in the history of this debate, including the sponsors of HB2 ever actually responded to this question about how this could ever be enforced? If the police show up, are they going to have probable cause to arrest that man or remove them from the locker room? Is the test for that how successful a person is at appearing as the gender they identify as?

Until someone can actually answer this question, this argument will continue to be ridiculous.

[SteveRogers]

What I want is a situation where you can use the facilities of your new gender, but only after receiving reassignment surgery. How this would be enforced, I'm not exactly sure. I've thought of showing some sort of ID to enter the restroom/locker room, but not sure if that would work out well or not.

You're not sure if that would work out well? Lol.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Bottom Line is that when you essentially desegregate bathrooms, which is what Charlotte did, you open yourselves up to trouble. The left likes to pretend that nobody has ever lied about being transgender, but that's simply not true: http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo

I don't know what the perfect solution is. But I know it's not HB2, because we need to acknowledge that transgenderism is real. I know it's not Charlotte, because then we open a YUGE door to the committing of crimes that by a Charlotte style Law are illegal to prevent. We need a middle ground solution, and I'm open to ideas as to what exactly that is.

[Dancing with Myself]

To be honest I think this was all set up in advance but happened a little earlier than expected.

I remember during the election McCory say that if Charlotte was to take the ordinance off they would have repealed it and that would have been that.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article102251942.html

But instead Charlotte waited on purpose to keep it going so Coop could get the W and then they'd agree to it.  I actually see this being a black eye for Pat as much as Coop. Pat was willing to take it off the books then but his old city wouldn't play ball that was an insult to him but it was smart. If Pat had repealed it then he could have won perhaps but instead Roy got a boost from it and unseated Pat. This does hurt Roy some as he had no hand in actually repealing it in office but it looks good on him to as it shows he has potential; loose some you win some.

The main thing now is seeing what happens afterwards. The left won't be happy unless the LGBT folks get something for them made up, but the Republicans won't ever let that happen. There will have to be a compromise over it for the issue to die off. I'm all for a decent compromise that helps both sides proper in the end; especially the left.

What I don't want to see is Coop cater to those who left the state. NCAA and the NBA can come back but the Springsteen's of the world can stay away for all I care. Coop and especially the Republicans have to be smart for the state's future the next decade or so.

[Bojack Horseman]

Edit above.

[publicunofficial]

What I want is a situation where you can use the facilities of your new gender, but only after receiving reassignment surgery. How this would be enforced, I'm not exactly sure. I've thought of showing some sort of ID to enter the restroom/locker room, but not sure if that would work out well or not.

"Needing a Gender ID card to use the bathroom" seems like a good idea if you don't think about it for more than 5 seconds.


Also, I'm not even mad at the NC GOP for this stunt. I'm more mad at NC Dems for falling for such an obvious lie. It's like the Scorpion and the Frog.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

If bathroom signs prevent rape, then surely "gun free zone" signs prevent shootings and terrorist attacks.

What I want is a situation where you can use the facilities of your new gender, but only after receiving reassignment surgery. How this would be enforced, I'm not exactly sure. I've thought of showing some sort of ID to enter the restroom/locker room, but not sure if that would work out well or not.

It wouldn't.  The government has no business inspecting people's genitals.  (Why do I have to explain this?)

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

What I want is a situation where you can use the facilities of your new gender, but only after receiving reassignment surgery. How this would be enforced, I'm not exactly sure. I've thought of showing some sort of ID to enter the restroom/locker room, but not sure if that would work out well or not.

Perhaps you could have some men in red hats stationed in front of each restroom with permission to sexually assault anyone they wanted to detain and search anyone they deemed suspicious?

Or better yet, you could build a time machine, and use it to go live in peaceful bliss in 1930s Germany.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

According to my Facebook feed, the vote to repeal HB2 failed 32-16!  Victory!!

[The Other Castro]

According to my Facebook feed, the vote to repeal HB2 failed 32-16!  Victory!!

I'm more puzzled than disgusted at how much glee you take in this.

[DrScholl]

Remind me again who is too focused on social issues?

[SteveRogers]

According to my Facebook feed, the vote to repeal HB2 failed 32-16!  Victory!!

Since you're so giddy about it, perhaps you can answer the question about how your dumb bathroom bill could ever possibly be enforced.

[FairBol]

According to my Facebook feed, the vote to repeal HB2 failed 32-16!  Victory!!

YES!! :: does the victory dance ::

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

What I want is a situation where you can use the facilities of your new gender, but only after receiving reassignment surgery. How this would be enforced, I'm not exactly sure. I've thought of showing some sort of ID to enter the restroom/locker room, but not sure if that would work out well or not.