U.N Security Council passes resolution Israeli settlements; the U.S doesn't veto

[Devout Centrist]

Let me get this right: liberals are cheering a resolution that amounts to nothing more than a strongly worded letter even though the next administration will use this as an excuse to gut the UN's funding? I mean there is no other nation that would be willing to replace America's almost single-handed funding of the organization

Obama's destructive spite towards Israel blinds him and most of his supporters.

The dangerous thing is, he's not done. He's got a month to try to get this to a point of open conflict between the two nations to salt the Earth.

Actually, no. Obama was the President who gave the biggest monetary support to Israel, always defended us in the U.N. until now, and always supported our right for self-defence against Hamas. It was Netanyahu who acted ungratefuly, and continuesly provoked the Obama administration. He came to give a speech in Congress in them middle of an election in Israel, when the President of the U.S explicitly asked him not to. If that's ungrateful, I don't know what is.

Precisely. Likud has been getting way too cocky as of late, and while I am an unabashed supporter of Israel, I find it hard to feel any empathy for Netanyahu.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Online alt-righters are furious about Trump defending Israel. They are deranged beyond repair.

[Shadows]

J Street, the dovish pro-Israel lobby, welcomed the resolution.

“The resolution is consistent with longstanding bipartisan American policy, which includes strong support for the two-state solution, and clear opposition to irresponsible and damaging actions, including Palestinian incitement and terror and Israeli settlement expansion and home demolitions,” J Street said.


Ronald Reagan, GOP President - Israel should freeze Settlements, they are an "obstacle to peace"

Bill Clinton - Settlements are an "obstacle to peace"

I am the biggest humanitarian in this forum, you guys are deranged radical extremists like the radical Islamic people. No sane human being can justify "settlements". You guys would probably support Hitler & justify the Holocaust.

Is the whole world Anti-semite? Why has every MAJOR country supported this?Why are African countries opposing settlements? Why are Asian countries opposing settlements? Why are Christian European states opposing settlements?

Secondly you goofs have no freaking right to call me intelligent since I am way more educated & intelligent than all of you.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

To be honest, I'm pretty tired of these kinds of discussions. I'll just say this- go study history, and then come back saying that Israel took over some magical, prosperous Palestinian country and not a barely populated wasteland ruled by the British.

Barely populated? Granted, Even if one ascribes all the increase in Arab population between 1922 and 1944 to immigration instead of the minor component ascribed to it in the 1946 British Survey of Palestine, The total Jewish population of Mandatory Palestine in 1944 was still less than than that of the native Arab population and considerably less than than the non-immigrant Arab population as determined by the authors of that survey.  A comparison of population growth rates in Egypt and Palestine in the era of 1890-1945 indicates that despite the claims of some, very little of the growth of the Arab population can be attributed to Arab immigration.  (Egypt's population almost but not quite tripled in that time frame, Arab Palestinian population slightly more than tripled,. so while there certainly some net Arab immigration, it was a minor factor. )

The reason that Zionist leaders have historically been opposed to a one-state solution is that at no time since the establishment of the Mandate of Palestine has there ever been a Jewish majority in that territory, nor has there ever been the prospect of one.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Israel should just go forward with annexation.

Just kill all the people in the West Bank that are in the way, right?

The left's fevered fantasies of a non-existent planned Israeli genocide that will justify "measures" against six million Jews are really disturbing.

Not as disturbing as the Apartheid state of Israel being immune to criticism. To the point where the very foundation of international politics may be destroyed over it.

All the blood libels in the world aren't going to change the fact that Israel is a nuclear power and is going to assert its continued existence on this planet, and nothing short of WW3 is going to change that.

Yeah, "We will use our secret nukes to start WW3" TOTALLY convinces me that Israel are the good guys here.

They wouldn't start it. The exterminationists would. But they would finish it, if need be.

The goal for nuclear war should not be to finish it, but to keep it from ever starting.  Besides, in terms of sheer physical area, Israel is a lot easier country to annihilate nuclearly than is Iran.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

But you know this is not a permanent state. In 15 to 20 years, Asia will continue to rise as comparatively US will stagnate in global power to defend everyone & Middle East Arab nations will recover.

While I am dubious about the long term viability of the State of Israel, it would take an extremely unlikely set of circumstances for Israel to not remain in existence for the remainder of this century, let alone be in existential danger within 15 to 20 years.

[Dan the Roman]

But you know this is not a permanent state. In 15 to 20 years, Asia will continue to rise as comparatively US will stagnate in global power to defend everyone & Middle East Arab nations will recover.

While I am dubious about the long term viability of the State of Israel, it would take an extremely unlikely set of circumstances for Israel to not remain in existence for the remainder of this century, let alone be in existential danger within 15 to 20 years.

Provided it keeps them limited to the inevitable ones, the saving grace for Israel is that its enemies are in relatively greater decline in terms of geopolitical relevance than it is. Even absent any sort of shift to renewable, the importance of the Arab states to the world energy market is lower now than in decades, and falling further, and within that group, the shift has been decisively towards states where the "street" does not matter(ie. the Gulf states/Saudis). Arab/Islamic nationalism(let's leave off Islamphobic generalizations about Muslims, the international issue is Islam as a proxy for Pan-Arab nationalist/secessionist movements) is at the same time increasingly an irritation for nations that have no reason to love Israel such as China, India, and the South East Asian states, none of whom share any of the European emotional sympathy for the Palestinians and have a vested interest in opposing "secessionist" and pan-national movements.

Basically if Israel were to play its card right, portray the Palestinians as a secessionist movement backed by outside financial actors and fighters, it could maintain the de facto support of virtually all of the major powers on the planet that are actually rising. Combined with the fact that the relative decline of Europe is much greater than that of the US, and Israel's odds of being better placed v. the Palestinians in forty years would be decent.

But that would require subtlety, knowing how to play the issue, and ensuring it is one of a minority trying to secede from indisputably sovereign territory, rather than a religious or ethnic minority trying to maintain control over a majority. The former cause is also the cause of China, India, Myanmar, Russia, Thailand, and Ethiopia. The latter is the cause of, well, pretty much nobody at this point.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Actually, so long as the Arabs suffer from the curse of oil wealth, Israel likely has nothing to fear. While it's not impossible for the Arab states to develop into an existential threat to Israel while their leadership bases their power upon natural resources and/or external sponsorship, it's once that is gone that the conditions for strong Arab states will develop.

This resolution demonstrated my point. Egypt, with its dependence upon external sponsorship, was able to be persuaded to withdraw the resolution. Had Egypt been independently strong, that wouldn't have happened.

[Blue3]

Actually, so long as the Arabs suffer from the curse of oil wealth, Israel likely has nothing to fear. While it's not impossible for the Arab states to develop into an existential threat to Israel while their leadership bases their power upon natural resources and/or external sponsorship, it's once that is gone that the conditions for strong Arab states will develop.

This resolution demonstrated my point. Egypt, with its dependence upon external sponsorship, was able to be persuaded to withdraw the resolution. Had Egypt been independently strong, that wouldn't have happened.

Egypt is not an oil-rich country.

[Devout Centrist]

Actually, so long as the Arabs suffer from the curse of oil wealth, Israel likely has nothing to fear. While it's not impossible for the Arab states to develop into an existential threat to Israel while their leadership bases their power upon natural resources and/or external sponsorship, it's once that is gone that the conditions for strong Arab states will develop.

This resolution demonstrated my point. Egypt, with its dependence upon external sponsorship, was able to be persuaded to withdraw the resolution. Had Egypt been independently strong, that wouldn't have happened.

Didn't Egypt end up voting for it anyway?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Actually, so long as the Arabs suffer from the curse of oil wealth, Israel likely has nothing to fear. While it's not impossible for the Arab states to develop into an existential threat to Israel while their leadership bases their power upon natural resources and/or external sponsorship, it's once that is gone that the conditions for strong Arab states will develop.

This resolution demonstrated my point. Egypt, with its dependence upon external sponsorship, was able to be persuaded to withdraw the resolution. Had Egypt been independently strong, that wouldn't have happened.

Egypt is not an oil-rich country.

But its government is certainly dependent upon external sponsorship to remain in power.

[Blue3]

Actually, so long as the Arabs suffer from the curse of oil wealth, Israel likely has nothing to fear. While it's not impossible for the Arab states to develop into an existential threat to Israel while their leadership bases their power upon natural resources and/or external sponsorship, it's once that is gone that the conditions for strong Arab states will develop.

This resolution demonstrated my point. Egypt, with its dependence upon external sponsorship, was able to be persuaded to withdraw the resolution. Had Egypt been independently strong, that wouldn't have happened.

Egypt is not an oil-rich country.

But its government is certainly dependent upon external sponsorship to remain in power.

Whose? We didn't support the coup.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Shadows arrogance, borderline antisemitism and flat out ignorance is adorable and amusing, in a way.

It's like when you read lefty blogs where half the comments are about how racist/sexist republicans are, and the other half are about how disgusting/horrible/hateful white men are.

And not a single one spots the hypocrisy.

The hypocrisy of a government made up overwhelmingly of rich white men claiming to represent everyone?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

But you know this is not a permanent state. In 15 to 20 years, Asia will continue to rise as comparatively US will stagnate in global power to defend everyone & Middle East Arab nations will recover.

While I am dubious about the long term viability of the State of Israel, it would take an extremely unlikely set of circumstances for Israel to not remain in existence for the remainder of this century, let alone be in existential danger within 15 to 20 years.

You think a handful of nukes in urban areas is "extremely unlikely"? I wish I shared your optimism. I think fear of that exact scenario drives a lot of Israel's foreign policy.

[KingSweden]

But you know this is not a permanent state. In 15 to 20 years, Asia will continue to rise as comparatively US will stagnate in global power to defend everyone & Middle East Arab nations will recover.

While I am dubious about the long term viability of the State of Israel, it would take an extremely unlikely set of circumstances for Israel to not remain in existence for the remainder of this century, let alone be in existential danger within 15 to 20 years.

Provided it keeps them limited to the inevitable ones, the saving grace for Israel is that its enemies are in relatively greater decline in terms of geopolitical relevance than it is. Even absent any sort of shift to renewable, the importance of the Arab states to the world energy market is lower now than in decades, and falling further, and within that group, the shift has been decisively towards states where the "street" does not matter(ie. the Gulf states/Saudis). Arab/Islamic nationalism(let's leave off Islamphobic generalizations about Muslims, the international issue is Islam as a proxy for Pan-Arab nationalist/secessionist movements) is at the same time increasingly an irritation for nations that have no reason to love Israel such as China, India, and the South East Asian states, none of whom share any of the European emotional sympathy for the Palestinians and have a vested interest in opposing "secessionist" and pan-national movements.

Basically if Israel were to play its card right, portray the Palestinians as a secessionist movement backed by outside financial actors and fighters, it could maintain the de facto support of virtually all of the major powers on the planet that are actually rising. Combined with the fact that the relative decline of Europe is much greater than that of the US, and Israel's odds of being better placed v. the Palestinians in forty years would be decent.

But that would require subtlety, knowing how to play the issue, and ensuring it is one of a minority trying to secede from indisputably sovereign territory, rather than a religious or ethnic minority trying to maintain control over a majority. The former cause is also the cause of China, India, Myanmar, Russia, Thailand, and Ethiopia. The latter is the cause of, well, pretty much nobody at this point.

I like this analysis.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

But you know this is not a permanent state. In 15 to 20 years, Asia will continue to rise as comparatively US will stagnate in global power to defend everyone & Middle East Arab nations will recover.

While I am dubious about the long term viability of the State of Israel, it would take an extremely unlikely set of circumstances for Israel to not remain in existence for the remainder of this century, let alone be in existential danger within 15 to 20 years.

You think a handful of nukes in urban areas is "extremely unlikely"? I wish I shared your optimism. I think fear of that exact scenario drives a lot of Israel's foreign policy.

I don't see the Iranian leadership as being suicidal. Evil, but not suicidal. They're the only ones who could have the ability that soon, and even that is not guaranteed. Plus, even with that ability, Iranian ability to penetrate Israeli ABM defenses that soon will effectively be nil. If we get a nuclear war in the next twenty years,it'll almost certainly be on the Korean peninsula, with a small chance of one on the Indian subcontinent.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

But you know this is not a permanent state. In 15 to 20 years, Asia will continue to rise as comparatively US will stagnate in global power to defend everyone & Middle East Arab nations will recover.

While I am dubious about the long term viability of the State of Israel, it would take an extremely unlikely set of circumstances for Israel to not remain in existence for the remainder of this century, let alone be in existential danger within 15 to 20 years.

You think a handful of nukes in urban areas is "extremely unlikely"? I wish I shared your optimism. I think fear of that exact scenario drives a lot of Israel's foreign policy.

I don't see the Iranian leadership as being suicidal. Evil, but not suicidal. They're the only ones who could have the ability that soon, and even that is not guaranteed. Plus, even with that ability, Iranian ability to penetrate Israeli ABM defenses that soon will effectively be nil. If we get a nuclear war in the next twenty years,it'll almost certainly be on the Korean peninsula, with a small chance of one on the Indian subcontinent.

The Pakistanis and North Koreans, as you mention, have that ability NOW. The Saudis want it, the Turks have a bunch of "borrowed" US nukes via their membership in NATO. Do you think the likely actions of President Pussygrabber are going to build a more stable world with less proliferation? (If you do, I know a Nigerian Price with an inheritance he needs help expatriating.)

And if some nation or third-party actor decides to nuke Israel, why on earth would they use missiles instead of shipping containers, trucks or boats?

[IceAgeComing]

Although, its funny. The republicans will play this up as a betrayal against Israel. And sure, conservatives will eat this up but American Jews are liberal and support a two-state solution. If republicans think fighting the UN over this is going to win them more supporters, especially Jewish supporters(like myself), they're going to be disappointed.

Why do you support a two state solution when the majority of Palestinians don't and in fact want Israel to cease existing altogether?

the idea of power sharing in Northern Ireland wasn't particularly popular amongst both communities (definitely not amongst the Unionist community; Nationalists were more split but that's to be expected really) there: yet now any attempt to remove it would probably be fiercely opposed by both protestants and catholics since, well, its created the best conditions in Northern Ireland for a very long time.  That's the whole point of creating peace in a region; you can't give everyone everything that they want, and .  Its why any peace in the region will be very fragile for a long time and all sides would need to work on keeping it - I suppose Northern Ireland is a good example in a way; admittedly its not in the middle of the tinder box that is the Middle East.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I think Kerry's speech is long overdue. I would've never backed this resolution because the UN has shown it is inherently anti-Israel, but the settlements need to be stopped. Kerry is also taking many of Israel's leaders to task, ironically using Randist logic. If love is not based in values, it is not love at all. Why should we back Israel if they abandon their own values and ours too?

Too bad Obama never lifted a finger to help the Palestinians until Donald Trump and the American people repudiated and humiliated him at the ballot box. Now he's on the warpath. That's why he stabbed Israel in the back. This whole brouhaha has actually made Israel, despite my serious reservations about their policies, actually look better in comparison to the Arabs and the other teary-eyed, borderline anti-Semitic leaders of the western world who pushed this. Trump needs to get us the hell out of this fraudulent, useless forum for various anti-American, anti-Semitic, anti-western third world tinpot dictators and their pretentious, handwringing internationalists enablers who should craw out back to academia. The UN makes me sick. Even when their right they manage to be wrong.

[Fusionmunster]

I think Kerry's speech is long overdue. I would've never backed this resolution because the UN has shown it is inherently anti-Israel, but the settlements need to be stopped. Kerry is also taking many of Israel's leaders to task, ironically using Randist logic. If love is not based in values, it is not love at all. Why should we back Israel if they abandon their own values and ours too?

Too bad Obama never lifted a finger to help the Palestinians until Donald Trump and the American people repudiated and humiliated him at the ballot box. Now he's on the warpath. That's why he stabbed Israel in the back. This whole brouhaha has actually made Israel, despite my serious reservations about their policies, actually look better in comparison to the Arabs and the other teary-eyed, borderline anti-Semitic leaders of the western world who pushed this. Trump needs to get us the hell out of this fraudulent, useless forum for various anti-American, anti-Semitic, anti-western third world tinpot dictators and their pretentious, handwringing internationalists enablers who should craw out back to academia. The UN makes me sick. Even when their right they manage to be wrong.

Shockingly, I agree with you. Obama finally grows a set of balls and its too late to do anything.

[JJC]

Shadows arrogance, borderline antisemitism and flat out ignorance is adorable and amusing, in a way.

It's like when you read lefty blogs where half the comments are about how racist/sexist republicans are, and the other half are about how disgusting/horrible/hateful white men are.

And not a single one spots the hypocrisy.

The hypocrisy of a government made up overwhelmingly of rich white men claiming to represent everyone?

It's almost like the overwhelming majority of the country is white, and that people who get elected have generally been successful in other areas of living.

I mean, what's your argument here? Should we put homeless bums in charge? Do away with voting and hire people based not on skill but skin color and gender? Do you even think out your positions before you post?

A couple of minutes upon self reflection and you'll find that everything you believe in fundamentally breaks down due to common sense.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Shadows arrogance, borderline antisemitism and flat out ignorance is adorable and amusing, in a way.

It's like when you read lefty blogs where half the comments are about how racist/sexist republicans are, and the other half are about how disgusting/horrible/hateful white men are.

And not a single one spots the hypocrisy.

The hypocrisy of a government made up overwhelmingly of rich white men claiming to represent everyone?

It's almost like the overwhelming majority of the country is white, and that people who get elected have generally been successful in other areas of living.

I mean, what's your argument here? Should we put homeless bums in charge? Do away with voting and hire people based not on skill but skin color and gender? Do you even think out your positions before you post?

A couple of minutes upon self reflection and you'll find that everything you believe in fundamentally breaks down due to common sense.

You do realize that white people are still overrepresented in Congress even if you consider Hispanic-identifying White Americans to be in the same category as non-Hispanic White Americans?

[Tintrlvr]

Actually, so long as the Arabs suffer from the curse of oil wealth, Israel likely has nothing to fear. While it's not impossible for the Arab states to develop into an existential threat to Israel while their leadership bases their power upon natural resources and/or external sponsorship, it's once that is gone that the conditions for strong Arab states will develop.

This resolution demonstrated my point. Egypt, with its dependence upon external sponsorship, was able to be persuaded to withdraw the resolution. Had Egypt been independently strong, that wouldn't have happened.

Egypt is not an oil-rich country.

But its government is certainly dependent upon external sponsorship to remain in power.

Whose? We didn't support the coup.

Not publicly.

In any case, the US continues to send enormous amounts of financial aid to Egypt's government, more than to any other government except Afghanistan and Israel, as well as other forms of less blatantly financial aid. That was not cut off with the coup. The Jordanian government is also propped up heavily with US aid, the next-largest recipient after Egypt. Ironically, though to Ernest's point, Israel also supports the Egyptian (and Jordanian) government (through espionage rather than aid) for fear of what would replace it.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Shadows arrogance, borderline antisemitism and flat out ignorance is adorable and amusing, in a way.

It's like when you read lefty blogs where half the comments are about how racist/sexist republicans are, and the other half are about how disgusting/horrible/hateful white men are.

And not a single one spots the hypocrisy.

The hypocrisy of a government made up overwhelmingly of rich white men claiming to represent everyone?

It's almost like the overwhelming majority of the country is white, and that people who get elected have generally been successful in other areas of living.

I mean, what's your argument here? Should we put homeless bums in charge? Do away with voting and hire people based not on skill but skin color and gender? Do you even think out your positions before you post?

A couple of minutes upon self reflection and you'll find that everything you believe in fundamentally breaks down due to common sense.

You do realize that white people are still overrepresented in Congress even if you consider Hispanic-identifying White Americans to be in the same category as non-Hispanic White Americans?

Even better, realize how he blew past "men" and utterly ignored it, without even thinking about what he was doing.

And then realize that he (again, without any signs of thought) considers wealth (including, apparently inherited wealth) and success to be complete equivalents.

I couldn't have come up with a better example of the problem. Thanks JJC!

[publicunofficial]

So is the opposition party of Israel also anti-Semitic? Because they agree with the UN's ruling.