How would Pence have done against Hillary?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 11:23:20 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2016 U.S. Presidential Election
  How would Pence have done against Hillary?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: How would Pence have done against Hillary?  (Read 1910 times)
Mister Mets
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,434
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: December 24, 2016, 11:50:18 AM »

There have been numerous articles suggesting that Pence is essentially going to be the guy who is running the country, so how do you think Pence would have done as a Republican presidential nominee? Would he have done better than Trump? Worse than Trump? Would a win have been less surprising?
Logged
justfollowingtheelections
unempprof
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,766


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 12:02:08 PM »

He would have been destroyed.  The closest a Christian fundamentalist like him or Cruz or Santorum can get to power is by becoming running mates to a more palatable Republican.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,072
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 01:49:32 PM »

Only trump, only Hillary, only one final straw push to decide whom...it just so happened Comeyghazi was the tipper, but it could've easily been P&^yghazi.
Logged
Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,502
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 02:12:36 PM »

I don't know.

Pence was a grown-up, had integrity, experience, and maturity to go against Hillary.  He was NOT a protectionist, however, and I don't know that he'd have carried PA, MI, and WI.
Logged
Pericles
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,066


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 02:58:16 PM »

I don't know.

Pence was a grown-up, had integrity, experience, and maturity to go against Hillary.  He was NOT a protectionist, however, and I don't know that he'd have carried PA, MI, and WI.

Pennsylvania was very close to being the tipping-point state in 2012 so a normal Republican could still flip it, plus New Hampshire may be flipped with a different Republican. Pence is not that strong a candidate, and may be too far to the right, but he probably is a stronger candidate than Trump, especially since Hillary was also very weak.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,072
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 03:05:41 PM »
« Edited: December 24, 2016, 03:08:42 PM by L.D. Smith, Nobody's Favorite Since 2014 »

I don't know.

Pence was a grown-up, had integrity, experience, and maturity to go against Hillary.  He was NOT a protectionist, however, and I don't know that he'd have carried PA, MI, and WI.

Pennsylvania was very close to being the tipping-point state in 2012 so a normal Republican could still flip it, plus New Hampshire may be flipped with a different Republican. Pence is not that strong a candidate, and may be too far to the right, but he probably is a stronger candidate than Trump, especially since Hillary was also very weak.

Hillary would've used the regular populist tricks and made Pence look like Romney since she wouldn't have her guard down.

Pence would've likely lost NC, PA, and MI.

Truth of the matter is, Hillary is a strong candidate when push comes to shove, but her ego is an Achilles Heel which came back to bite her again after 2008.

To ask how Pence would've done, would be like asking what the fate of John Edwards in '08.

Logged
MT Treasurer
IndyRep
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,284
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2016, 11:16:25 PM »
« Edited: December 24, 2016, 11:18:57 PM by MT Treasurer »

Lol@people saying Trump was the only Republican who could have beaten Clinton because MUH RUST BELT REVOLT. I can't think of a single reason why Pence or Kasich would have done worse in Wisconsin, for example.
Logged
Pericles
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,066


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2016, 11:48:19 PM »

Lol@people saying Trump was the only Republican who could have beaten Clinton because MUH RUST BELT REVOLT. I can't think of a single reason why Pence or Kasich would have done worse in Wisconsin, for example.

Indeed the evidence shows 2016 was a Republican year not a Trump year.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,072
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2016, 04:42:44 AM »
« Edited: December 25, 2016, 04:49:05 AM by L.D. Smith, Nobody's Favorite Since 2014 »

Lol@people saying Trump was the only Republican who could have beaten Clinton because MUH RUST BELT REVOLT. I can't think of a single reason why Pence or Kasich would have done worse in Wisconsin, for example.

Didn't even factor in the Rust Belt at all for the case for only Trump (and the inverse, only Hillary getting so close)...except for Wisconsin, which in turn could be stopped by NC or AZ going to Hillary.

With what I did factor, someone like Pence would've been destroyed for his religious right pandering and someone like Kasich would've gone down with the first bit of dirt.  In both cases Hillary would've been less willing to overreach.

If the debates are anything to go by, only those like Pence or Kasich were on the mainline against Trump.


Logged
President Johnson
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,576
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -3.23, S: -4.70


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2016, 06:11:07 AM »

I think he would have lost narrowly. Hilldog was a bad candidate but Pence is not that strong. She would have kept Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan and won the election by a close margin.
Logged
SWE
SomebodyWhoExists
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,234
United States


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2016, 08:53:14 PM »

Clinton would've done significantly better in Indiana in this scenario, at the very least.
Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,096
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2016, 10:05:55 PM »

He'd have lost like the rest of the Republican field. This year wasn't a Republican victory. It was a Trump victory. Any other Republican put up against the Clinton juggernaut would have folded quicker than your aunt at a poker game.
Logged
MT Treasurer
IndyRep
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,284
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2016, 02:21:54 PM »

He'd have lost like the rest of the Republican field. This year wasn't a Republican victory. It was a Trump victory. Any other Republican put up against the Clinton juggernaut would have folded quicker than your aunt at a poker game.

Yeah, the candidate with the highest unfavorables was clearly the most electable Republican out there. I get Trump's appeal in states like Michigan and all of that, but you're seriously underestimating the number of Republicans/suburbanites/Whites that only voted for him very reluctantly or not at all.

Also... Clinton "juggernaut"? Seriously? She basically destroyed him on the airwaves in what was the most negative campaign ever. He never responded to those devastating Democratic attack ads. If that didn't hurt him, it wasn't going to hurt Kasich either.
Logged
15 Down, 35 To Go
ExtremeRepublican
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,660


Political Matrix
E: 7.35, S: 5.57


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2016, 02:33:15 PM »

Come on- it would have been a Pence landslide.  The ONLY reason this election was close was that Trump was uniquely controversial.  There is not a major Republican officeholder that Hillary would have beaten.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2016, 03:29:38 PM »

Donald Trump was the strongest GOP candidate and still lost the national popular vote.
Logged
Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
Sprouts
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,749
Italy


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: 1.74

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2016, 03:32:01 PM »

Come on- it would have been a Pence landslide.  The ONLY reason this election was close was that Trump was uniquely controversial.  There is not a major Republican officeholder that Hillary would have beaten.

Pence would be lucky to lose by 10% in Pennsylvania.
Logged
Pericles
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,066


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2016, 05:41:40 PM »

Donald Trump was the strongest GOP candidate and still lost the national popular vote.

The idea that Donald Trump was a strong candidate is ridiculous, all the evidence shows he was not, and the implication that Hillary was also a strong candidate is even more laughable.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,072
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2016, 08:04:34 PM »

Donald Trump was the strongest GOP candidate and still lost the national popular vote.

The idea that Donald Trump was a strong candidate is ridiculous, all the evidence shows he was not, and the implication that Hillary was also a strong candidate is even more laughable.

Neither were strong on paper, which is precisely why in the polarized electorate they were the strongest.

They were two glass cannons clearly nominated with the sheer purpose of the destroying the other, with no concept of defense in mind.

The final blow, no matter how actually small it was, was therefore was more critical.




Logged
Atlas Has Shrugged
ChairmanSanchez
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 38,096
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2016, 12:19:47 PM »
« Edited: December 28, 2016, 12:22:09 PM by We're never gonna have it so good! »

He'd have lost like the rest of the Republican field. This year wasn't a Republican victory. It was a Trump victory. Any other Republican put up against the Clinton juggernaut would have folded quicker than your aunt at a poker game.

Yeah, the candidate with the highest unfavorables was clearly the most electable Republican out there. I get Trump's appeal in states like Michigan and all of that, but you're seriously underestimating the number of Republicans/suburbanites/Whites that only voted for him very reluctantly or not at all.

Also... Clinton "juggernaut"? Seriously? She basically destroyed him on the airwaves in what was the most negative campaign ever. He never responded to those devastating Democratic attack ads. If that didn't hurt him, it wasn't going to hurt Kasich either.
That's because she dumped so much dirt on him that he became teflon. She figured he was so unelectable that she'd never have to give her own vision. She wouldn't have had to run that kind of campaign against Kasich. She'd have beaten him on her own merits like Obama did over Romney.

Suburban Republican whites always vote Republican. They don't change the election's course. This election was won by Obama-Trump voters who wouldn't vote for Jeb!, Kasich, Cruz, or Lil Marco.
Logged
Gabagool102
Rookie
**
Posts: 244
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 1.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2016, 03:11:14 PM »

Any other Republican put up against the Clinton juggernaut would have folded quicker than your aunt at a poker game.

Grin
Logged
Xing
xingkerui
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,303
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.52, S: -3.91

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2016, 04:17:37 PM »

He probably wouldn't have won Michigan or Pennsylvania, but he would've won Titanium R Wisconsin by at least 10%, since Trump's landslide 0.8% win is the new Republican floor in Wisconsin, and that floor is rising faster than college tuition.
Logged
Figueira
84285
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,175


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2016, 04:59:59 PM »

I think he would have lost. He's an incredibly unpleasant person.
Logged
BoAtlantis
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 791


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2016, 05:01:13 PM »

Donald Trump was the strongest GOP candidate and still lost the national popular vote.

No, he was not. I give credit where it's due. He outperformed his expectation but this was GOP's year. If Rubio or Kasich was sent out, Hillary would have been lucky to lose PV by only 2-3%.

It was only Trump's insanity that made it competitive at all.
Logged
Warren 4 Secretary of Everything
Clinton1996
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,203
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -4.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2016, 05:48:57 PM »

He probably wouldn't have won Michigan or Pennsylvania, but he would've won Titanium R Wisconsin by at least 10%, since Trump's landslide 0.8% win is the new Republican floor in Wisconsin, and that floor is rising faster than college tuition.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or no
Logged
America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,422
Israel


Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2016, 05:54:31 PM »

Pence would lose, he'd scare too many independants off. Out of the rest of the Republican field, Cruz, Huckabee, Santorum, Carson, Fiorina, Christie, Bush, Walker, Graham, Perry (lol) and Gilmore (lol) would lose. Kasich, Rubio, Jindal (not sure), Pataki and Paul would win.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.053 seconds with 13 queries.