Muslim Americans more accepting of homosexuality than many Christian groups

[progressive85]

I've met three young, evangelical Christians in my life and all of them were very gay friendly themselves and at the same time very devout as well.  They too supported gay marriage.

I guess you really can't use broad generalizations for any group.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Proud member of the 36%!

You're a Mormon?!

I'm an evangelical Christian.

[Devout Centrist]

I can't imagine where they may have gotten that idea from.  Maybe it's because that's what they are saying?  link - Islamreligion.com

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Perhaps Islamreligion.com isn't a mainstream place, perhaps my Google Fu is weak today, but most of what I found in some casual searching is like the above.  (worse actually, but I wanted neutral or pro-Islamic places...it doesn't matter what the haters say or claim)

LGBT people are being accepted more and more in the developed world (a little less so in parts of Asia). In the developing world, they are hated as decadent symbols of the West or mortal sinners. Both Christians and Muslims agree on that, oddly enough.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Anecdotally, among people I know who are deeply committed to conservative religious identifiers (non-BRTD Evangelicals, Mormons, some of my fellow Catholics), even those who have moral qualms with homosexuality themselves are coming around to the idea that society as a whole should accept it.

The idea that most Evangelicals and Mormons are "impoverished backwoods snake-handlers" is certainly an interesting one.

[DC Al Fine]

The idea that most Evangelicals and Mormons are "impoverished backwoods snake-handlers" is certainly an interesting one.

Bubblers gonna bubble

[Goldwater]

The idea that most Evangelicals and Mormons are "impoverished backwoods snake-handlers" is certainly an interesting one.

I seem to remember hearing that Mormons are, overall, actually one of the most affluent religious groups.

[Kingpoleon]

Proud member of the 36%!

You're a Mormon?!

I'm an evangelical Christian.

I was making a joke....

[dead0man]

LGBT people are being accepted more and more in the developed world (a little less so in parts of Asia). In the developing world, they are hated as decadent symbols of the West or mortal sinners. Both Christians and Muslims agree on that, oddly enough.

that yarn likes to be spun

countries that have signed the UN LGBT rights decleration are in blue
countries that signed the UN "gays ain't people" alternative are in red




Not a perfect match, but come on....

[Devout Centrist]

LGBT people are being accepted more and more in the developed world (a little less so in parts of Asia). In the developing world, they are hated as decadent symbols of the West or mortal sinners. Both Christians and Muslims agree on that, oddly enough.

that yarn likes to be spun

countries that have signed the UN LGBT rights decleration are in blue
countries that signed the UN "gays ain't people" alternative are in red




Not a perfect match, but come on....

Correlation doesn't equate causation. I am and always will be critical of Islam, especially because of its inherent social illiberalism. That being said, the poorer a nation is (and to an extent how authoritarian its past was) factor in greatly as to how accepting of LGBT people the nation as a whole is. How hard is it to acknowledge that both religion and politics are the problem? Islam is very anti-LGBT and I wouldn't ever say otherwise, but know that Christians in the developing world harbor the same attitudes. Nations where the government is secular and religion is out of politics are far more LGBT friendly.

[dead0man]

Correlation doesn't equate causation. I am and always will be critical of Islam, especially because of its inherent social illiberalism. That being said, the poorer a nation is (and to an extent how authoritarian its past was) factor in greatly as to how accepting of LGBT people the nation as a whole is. How hard is it to acknowledge that both religion and politics are the problem?

I acknowledge that.

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which is all my post that you commented on was saying, I'm not sure where we even disagree at this point

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Some of them, indeed.  Nowhere near as consistently as Muslims do though.  As the above map shows, really clearly.

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Indeed.  It's good that the libertarian position on that has finally taken hold, took the left long enough

[Devout Centrist]

Correlation doesn't equate causation. I am and always will be critical of Islam, especially because of its inherent social illiberalism. That being said, the poorer a nation is (and to an extent how authoritarian its past was) factor in greatly as to how accepting of LGBT people the nation as a whole is. How hard is it to acknowledge that both religion and politics are the problem?

I acknowledge that.

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which is all my post that you commented on was saying, I'm not sure where we even disagree at this point

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Some of them, indeed.  Nowhere near as consistently as Muslims do though.  As the above map shows, really clearly.

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Indeed.  It's good that the libertarian position on that has finally taken hold, took the left long enough

We don't disagree, I was just adding more details to your post.

Also, I'm not a leftist.

[Sbane]

Correlation doesn't equate causation. I am and always will be critical of Islam, especially because of its inherent social illiberalism. That being said, the poorer a nation is (and to an extent how authoritarian its past was) factor in greatly as to how accepting of LGBT people the nation as a whole is. How hard is it to acknowledge that both religion and politics are the problem?

I acknowledge that.

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which is all my post that you commented on was saying, I'm not sure where we even disagree at this point

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Some of them, indeed.  Nowhere near as consistently as Muslims do though.  As the above map shows, really clearly.

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Indeed.  It's good that the libertarian position on that has finally taken hold, took the left long enough

In East Africa particularly, it is the Christians that are causing rampant homophobia and violence against gays. And in many cases being fueled by mission trips from the United States.

[dead0man]

Yep, that's the only place that's ever brought up as an example.  Weird.  You'd think if Christianity was just as bad as Islam to homosexuals you could point to some place else...but nope, always east Africa.  Kind of reminds me of Xahar's favorite terrorist act.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yep, that's the only place that's ever brought up as an example.  Weird.  You'd think if Christianity was just as bad as Islam to homosexuals you could point to some place else...but nope, always east Africa.  Kind of reminds me of Xahar's favorite terrorist act.

Latin America tends to follow the U.S. lead on toothless documents such as this and I'm not certain Europe generally qualifies as Christian these days. Secular Christian perhaps.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Yep, that's the only place that's ever brought up as an example.  Weird.  You'd think if Christianity was just as bad as Islam to homosexuals you could point to some place else...but nope, always east Africa.  Kind of reminds me of Xahar's favorite terrorist act.

Another example is Russia.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I mean the obvious point is that Islam is going through a very conservative turn that has emanated from the Gulf and spread outwards, especially attracting young activists disillusionmed by the failure of communism, Arab nationalism and western liberalism to sort out life. Better to go down a very reactionary route that idealises a longloat period - Islamism in that regards is hardly distinct from any other escapist idealogy like Objectivism or Marxism. And homophobia is a perfect issue for them because it acts as a foil to the west, which always is a good scapegoat.

Will the Muslim world move on from the reactionary wave? Maybe. I dunno.

[ingemann]

Yep, that's the only place that's ever brought up as an example.  Weird.  You'd think if Christianity was just as bad as Islam to homosexuals you could point to some place else...but nope, always east Africa.  Kind of reminds me of Xahar's favorite terrorist act.

Latin America tends to follow the U.S. lead on toothless documents such as this and I'm not certain Europe generally qualifies as Christian these days. Secular Christian perhaps.

We're not snake handlers, but I would say that Christian theology are much more acceptable to use in political debate, the people using Christian theology just happen to be on the left, while the right focus on Christianity as a communitarian aspect of European culture. I think the difference between Christianity in USA and Europe, are that American Christianity focus much more on how others should act, while European Christianity focus much more how yourself should act.

[Devout Centrist]

Yep, that's the only place that's ever brought up as an example.  Weird.  You'd think if Christianity was just as bad as Islam to homosexuals you could point to some place else...but nope, always east Africa.  Kind of reminds me of Xahar's favorite terrorist act.

Another example is Russia.

Most of Eastern Europe and the Christian Caucuses.

Seriously, fundamentalism and traditionalism suck.

[Sir Mohamed]

The reason is that most American muslims (less than 1% of population) are high-educated liberals. If you take the same group with christians, it wouldn't make a big difference.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Yep, that's the only place that's ever brought up as an example.  Weird.  You'd think if Christianity was just as bad as Islam to homosexuals you could point to some place else...but nope, always east Africa.  Kind of reminds me of Xahar's favorite terrorist act.

Another example is Russia.

Most of Eastern Europe and the Christian Caucuses.

Seriously, fundamentalism and traditionalism suck.

     Those countries are certainly not kind to gay people, but the first map dead0man posted suggests that they are still not as homophobic as most of the Middle East is.

[jamestroll]

I would think most Muslims who live in the United States experience a completely different culture from the middle east. One in which they are largely discriminated against. So that contributes to them being more tolerant of gays as they know how it feels to be discriminated against.

It is also why I am not anti-refugee. Refugees are wanting to escape terrorism, not bring it with them.

[HAnnA MArin County]

But Republicans/blue avatars told me that Islam was more anti-gay than Christianity since they hang gays whereas Christians just try to prevent you from getting married, protecting you from getting fired at work or physically assaulted for being gay, and for allowing people to discriminate against you in their businesses in the name of Jesus. Yeah, Christians: "the loving tolerant" religion for gay people who just want to make your life so miserable that you may be the one to kill yourself. In other words, the Christian response to homosexuality: "it could always be worse!" 

[America Needs R'hllor]

Yep, that's the only place that's ever brought up as an example.  Weird.  You'd think if Christianity was just as bad as Islam to homosexuals you could point to some place else...but nope, always east Africa.  Kind of reminds me of Xahar's favorite terrorist act.

Another example is Russia.

Most of Eastern Europe and the Christian Caucuses.

Seriously, fundamentalism and traditionalism suck.

When I was on a trip to Russia this August, young couples kissing in public was a pretty common sight. All straight, of course. Still, in a modern country, traditionalism is not going to survive, so I'm optimistic that homophobia in Eastern Europe and the Caucuses will pass. If the Middle East and Africa catch a break and become less war-torn and more modernized, the same thing will happen there.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yep, that's the only place that's ever brought up as an example.  Weird.  You'd think if Christianity was just as bad as Islam to homosexuals you could point to some place else...but nope, always east Africa.  Kind of reminds me of Xahar's favorite terrorist act.

Another example is Russia.

Most of Eastern Europe and the Christian Caucuses.

Seriously, fundamentalism and traditionalism suck.

When I was on a trip to Russia this August, young couples kissing in public was a pretty common sight. All straight, of course. Still, in a modern country, traditionalism is not going to survive, so I'm optimistic that homophobia in Eastern Europe and the Caucuses will pass. If the Middle East and Africa catch a break and become less war-torn and more modernized, the same thing will happen there.

The idea that a modern country must be "socially progressive" strikes me as yet another variant of the ludicrous idea that cultures are purely determined by economics.

[Green Line]

The new ones wont be nearly as accepting.