American citizens: where do you stand on Israel?

[FairBol]

The two state solution is outdated. Large majorities of Palestinians believe terrorism against Israel is acceptable. The violence isnt about settlements or borders. The people stabbing Jews and blowing themselves up to kill Jews and fire rockets into Israel to kill Jews, they aren't really motivated by the settlements. Not motivated by want for statehood. The bottom line is they really don't like Jewish people and think they should leave or die. Even the political Palestinians, who try to treat the Temple Mount like it's not part of Israel, know this. They just dog whistle about "1967 borders" because they Israel will never cooperate. It would be very damaging to their authority to actually cement the existence of Israel in an agreement.

Israel is a Jewish nation. Israel will not be safe with a UN-backed Palestinian terror-state on its borders that would no support and abet the anti-Semitic scum of the earth within their new country.

Well said, Potus.  The only thing I would add to this is that the US' betrayal of Israel in the UN is shameful at best, and disgusting at worst.  I guess it shouldn't be totally shocking, though....what else would you expect from Obama, not to mention John Kerry? And oh BTW....John Kerry is a traitorous and treasonous piece of you-know-what.  If you don't believe me, ask the people of South Vietnam, or the many American soldiers that he ran down in front of the enemy (at a "peace conference" in Vietnam back in the 70s).  I have no respect for Kerry...after January 20th, I hope he goes away, never to be heard from in public again.  

PS: If you don't like what I have to say about John Kerry, "bite me" (thanks Eric Bischoff).  

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One can support Isreal's right to exist, while opposing the Israeli state as of current, and support a two state solution.

First off, Israel has taken military actions in self-defense.  Don't try that BS with me.  Second...says the guy who has a Fidel Castro quote in his sig, LOL.  

[FairBol]

Vietnam war was a disaster. It got many US people killed & it butchered millions of people in Vietnam, that country turned communist & a huge section of Vietnam hated the US & most countries looked at the war in a negative sense. I don't know how can people justify killing!

Even Bernie Sanders was an objector to that disaster of a war. And a Democrat LBJ who swept to victory in a landslide couldn't even run for re-election due to sinking popularity due to the Vietnam.

LBJ's (a Democrat with War on Poverty & Medicare/Medicaid/Civil rights/Food stamps) approval ratings was directly related to Vietnam & the people hated in the Vietnam war in the end - It was hugely unpopular then!

Yes, Vietnam was a disaster, but why is that? It's because traitors like John Kerry undermined the US presence in Vietnam.  They collaborated with the enemy, which eventually forced us to retreat and give up the fight.  And if you didn't know, Kerry LIED in testimony before the Committee on Foreign Relations.  They say "death before dishonor", but apparently for Kerry, that isn't true.  People like that are why America technically lost in Vietnam. 

PS: LBJ chose not to run for a second term...he might've won, but he decided to step aside. 

[FairBol]

If you're still hung up with Kerry opposing the Vietnam war in the 1970's you have absolutely no right to lecture on US foreign policy

Why's that? Am I incorrect or somehow a scumbag because I say Kerry was, and is, a traitor?

[Torie]

Personally, I have this feeling that the PA really does not want an independent state in a two state solution. With independence comes responsibility for its actions. The sad thing about it, is that over the decades, almost all Christians, along with most of the middle class, has long since decamped from the place. It's a tragedy really.

So perhaps what was noted above about Jordan plus most of the West Bank becoming a Palestinian state someday, might end up being the end game.

You mean with Arab-majority WB becoming part of Jordon?
And Gaza eventually being annexed by Egypt?

Correct.  And it sadly will probably be done eventually without a peace treaty with Israel. Nobody wants Gaza. So it will be just an ongoing issue for the ensuing decades.  Some problems really have no solutions.

[Gass3268]

Personally, I have this feeling that the PA really does not want an independent state in a two state solution. With independence comes responsibility for its actions. The sad thing about it, is that over the decades, almost all Christians, along with most of the middle class, has long since decamped from the place. It's a tragedy really.

So perhaps what was noted above about Jordan plus most of the West Bank becoming a Palestinian state someday, might end up being the end game.

You mean with Arab-majority WB becoming part of Jordon?
And Gaza eventually being annexed by Egypt?

Correct.  And it sadly will probably be done eventually without a peace treaty with Israel. Nobody wants Gaza. So it will be just an ongoing issue for the ensuing decades.  Some problems really have no solutions.

I don't know how Jordan annexing the West Bank is possible when almost all of the Israeli settlements in Zone C are between the Jordan River and where most of the Palestinians live. 

[Torie]

Personally, I have this feeling that the PA really does not want an independent state in a two state solution. With independence comes responsibility for its actions. The sad thing about it, is that over the decades, almost all Christians, along with most of the middle class, has long since decamped from the place. It's a tragedy really.

So perhaps what was noted above about Jordan plus most of the West Bank becoming a Palestinian state someday, might end up being the end game.

You mean with Arab-majority WB becoming part of Jordon?
And Gaza eventually being annexed by Egypt?

Correct.  And it sadly will probably be done eventually without a peace treaty with Israel. Nobody wants Gaza. So it will be just an ongoing issue for the ensuing decades.  Some problems really have no solutions.

I don't know how Jordan annexing the West Bank is possible when almost all of the Israeli settlements in Zone C are between the Jordan River and where most of the Palestinians live. 

To the extent that is true (a map would be nice), that will be a problem. But Israel ruling over others with no political rights, is just not sustainable over the long term - not in this day and age.

[Gass3268]

Personally, I have this feeling that the PA really does not want an independent state in a two state solution. With independence comes responsibility for its actions. The sad thing about it, is that over the decades, almost all Christians, along with most of the middle class, has long since decamped from the place. It's a tragedy really.

So perhaps what was noted above about Jordan plus most of the West Bank becoming a Palestinian state someday, might end up being the end game.

You mean with Arab-majority WB becoming part of Jordon?
And Gaza eventually being annexed by Egypt?

Correct.  And it sadly will probably be done eventually without a peace treaty with Israel. Nobody wants Gaza. So it will be just an ongoing issue for the ensuing decades.  Some problems really have no solutions.

I don't know how Jordan annexing the West Bank is possible when almost all of the Israeli settlements in Zone C are between the Jordan River and where most of the Palestinians live. 

To the extent that is true (a map would be nice), that will be a problem. But Israel ruling over others with no political rights, is just not sustainable over the long term - not in this day and age.

That vox.com video that was posted on the previous page really goes into the different zones, geography, and has maps.

[Torie]

Personally, I have this feeling that the PA really does not want an independent state in a two state solution. With independence comes responsibility for its actions. The sad thing about it, is that over the decades, almost all Christians, along with most of the middle class, has long since decamped from the place. It's a tragedy really.

So perhaps what was noted above about Jordan plus most of the West Bank becoming a Palestinian state someday, might end up being the end game.

You mean with Arab-majority WB becoming part of Jordon?
And Gaza eventually being annexed by Egypt?

Correct.  And it sadly will probably be done eventually without a peace treaty with Israel. Nobody wants Gaza. So it will be just an ongoing issue for the ensuing decades.  Some problems really have no solutions.

I don't know how Jordan annexing the West Bank is possible when almost all of the Israeli settlements in Zone C are between the Jordan River and where most of the Palestinians live. 

To the extent that is true (a map would be nice), that will be a problem. But Israel ruling over others with no political rights, is just not sustainable over the long term - not in this day and age.

That vox.com video that was posted on the previous page really goes into the different zones, geography, and has maps.

Thanks. But isn't most of the blue C Israel security zone near the Jordan River basically unpopulated?

[progressive85]

I think Israel is the only humane place in that entire region of the world.  So I favor Israel overwhelmingly.  That being said, I don't want to see Muslims being harassed.  I think it should be one state, religiously diverse, but still a Jewish state.

[Blue3]

Relevant to bring this up again, with Trump saying a Two-State solution no longer necessary.

[Devout Centrist]

Wow, Trump gave Bibi carte blanche to just annex the whole area. Great, set up an actual apartheid state and prove BDS right. That'll show Israel's critics.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Two states won't work anymore. Palestine and Israel were always on the small side, but the Israelis have destroyed Palestine's structural integrity. Maybe something built on the Lebanon model could work. But Palestinian bantustans need to be off the table, and so does a Jewish version of apartheid South-Africa.

[Meclazine for Israel]

I remember seeing Israel and Palestine on the news in the 1970's.

Palestinian's where throwing rocks at Israel.

When my children ask, i tell them they will still be doing that in 2070.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Wow, Trump gave Bibi carte blanche to just annex the whole area. Great, set up an actual apartheid state and prove BDS right. That'll show Israel's critics.

He did also say that he opposes settlement expansion and that both sides would have to agree. Nonetheless, Bibi has no guts to annex anything.

[Devout Centrist]

Wow, Trump gave Bibi carte blanche to just annex the whole area. Great, set up an actual apartheid state and prove BDS right. That'll show Israel's critics.

He did also say that he opposes settlement expansion and that both sides would have to agree. Nonetheless, Bibi has no guts to annex anything.

What about his soon to be successor?

[Hydera]

Most Israelis online seem to want the current status quo to go on forever. Where while there exists two state. Palestinians being subordinate and settlement expansion continue to go on. Where Israel will not relinquish control of the whole West Bank even areas populated by settlements. A more radical option is also growing in sentiment. One state with the Palestinians kicked out to Jordan. I noticed most Israelis seemed to stop believing in a two state solution ever since 2009-2011.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Write-in: UN-governed special zone.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Most Israelis online seem to want the current status quo to go on forever. Where while there exists two state. Palestinians being subordinate and settlement expansion continue to go on. Where Israel will not relinquish control of the whole West Bank even areas populated by settlements. A more radical option is also growing in sentiment. One state with the Palestinians kicked out to Jordan. I noticed most Israelis seemed to stop believing in a two state solution ever since 2009-2011.

Yeah, destabilize Jordan.   That's smart, real smart, NOT!

However, I don't see Israel going to forced deportations, just making life so miserable for the Arabs living under the Israeli thumb that they'll self-deport.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Wow, Trump gave Bibi carte blanche to just annex the whole area. Great, set up an actual apartheid state and prove BDS right. That'll show Israel's critics.

He did also say that he opposes settlement expansion and that both sides would have to agree. Nonetheless, Bibi has no guts to annex anything.

What about his soon to be successor?

That depends on who will it be. Lapid will probably be better than Bibi, though he's a coward so he'll probably not make a treaty. Bennett would probably annex something symbolic but not everything- he also doesn't have the guts. The others from the Likud would basically continue Netanyahu.

[Rjjr77]

My choice isn't listed. It is not our business what Israel decides to do, I think we need to take the leash off of Israel.

[dax00]

Best option: 2 state solution, with boundary drawn as it was originally (before any of the Palestinian land was wrongfully seized) and reparations paid to the new Palestine by Israel for all past oppression.

[Goldwater]

If I am speaking ideally, option 1 is obviously the best. Realistically, though, Israel remaining our ally is probably more important than any of these...

[America Needs R'hllor]

Best option: 2 state solution, with boundary drawn as it was originally (before any of the Palestinian land was wrongfully seized) and reparations paid to the new Palestine by Israel for all past oppression.

And how are you planning to destroy, for example, the city of Ariel where there are 18,717 citizens plus a university? Or any of the many other cities? Land swaps are inevitable if you want an agreement. But you don't seem to want an agreement, based on your suggestion for reparations.

[Tintrlvr]

Best option: 2 state solution, with boundary drawn as it was originally (before any of the Palestinian land was wrongfully seized) and reparations paid to the new Palestine by Israel for all past oppression.

And how are you planning to destroy, for example, the city of Ariel where there are 18,717 citizens plus a university? Or any of the many other cities? Land swaps are inevitable if you want an agreement. But you don't seem to want an agreement, based on your suggestion for reparations.

I'm not going to say this is my preferred position (I like the one-state solution), but the Jewish/Israeli people of Ariel can stay if they want and become Palestinian citizens. Or they can leave, which they probably would. No one needs to destroy the city; other people would live there. That's not even slightly unusual in world history, especially recent world history.

If you were talking about a city right on the border, land swaps might be workable, but Ariel is deep in the West Bank. It is part of Palestine in any realistic two-state solution.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Best option: 2 state solution, with boundary drawn as it was originally (before any of the Palestinian land was wrongfully seized) and reparations paid to the new Palestine by Israel for all past oppression.

So basically, reset the clock to the offered status quo before the multiple wars of extermination were launched by the Arab states against the Jewish people.

The irony is, this was essentially offered at Camp David (sans the reparitions, which would never happen). The Palestinians rejected it because of no "right of return". They want Tel Aviv too, de facto if not de jure.