Trump derangement syndrome

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief at how this controversial figure won the election. It's beyond my comprehension. Another thing beyond my comprehension is how so many of his supporters think that he is going to do great things for this country. I have no clue what they base their idea upon, but to be so certain that Trump is going to change anything for the better is only wishful thinking at this point. The supporters don't know anything more about the wild card Trump than do any of the rest of us.

Eh, in hindsight, it's not that hard to see how he won. Hillary is a woman whose been demonized by the talk-show right for decades, whatever her strengths she also had some honestly bad optics, and she's never been a great campaigner. Combine that with her as the Establishment representative, a real problem with wealth disparity, social structures in chaos, a lot of voters who couldn't think critically if they wanted to (and they don't). And then top it off with media coverage that helped Trump and hurt Clinton with the Comey letter as the cherry on top.

All that and he barely managed to squeak out an EC win.

And yeah, people thinking Trump is going to "fix" their problems is pure magical thinking. (Unless you're a billionaire who thinks the problem is that the peons have too much power.) Trump is what you get when you let democracy go to weeds. A fat rat.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Trump derangement syndrome is a much bigger problem than Obama derangement syndrome because the same elite bubbles that went for Marco Rubio, a crazy conspiracy nut, in the 2016 primary, went for Barack Obama in the 2008 primary. These people are the power elite. They aren't particularly wise (certainly less so than Trump), but they are particularly powerful. Trump must be wary of them. Fortunately, they made the job much easier for him by largely disavowing Trump before November. John McCain and David Frum thankfully aren't gonna have influence in the administration. The big risk is that the Democratic Party absorbs these people and becomes a totally evil party in every respect, making its victories even more devastating to the U.S. than Obama's (which could have been a lot worse if Obama was even remotely like FDR).

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump derangement syndrome is a much bigger problem than Obama derangement syndrome because the same elite bubbles that went for Marco Rubio, a crazy conspiracy nut, in the 2016 primary, went for Barack Obama in the 2008 primary. These people are the power elite. They aren't particularly wise (certainly less so than Trump), but they are particularly powerful. Trump must be wary of them. Fortunately, they made the job much easier for him by largely disavowing Trump before November. John McCain and David Frum thankfully aren't gonna have influence in the administration. The big risk is that the Democratic Party absorbs these people and becomes a totally evil party in every respect, making its victories even more devastating to the U.S. than Obama's (which could have been a lot worse if Obama was even remotely like FDR).

I disagree. The greatest threat along these lines is that Trump's own gross incompetence, combined with his rejection of the "establishment elite". They will combine to legitimize and empower them. That will leave us with another generation of a broken status quo, if the country survives at all.

[Person Man]

Trump derangement syndrome is a much bigger problem than Obama derangement syndrome because the same elite bubbles that went for Marco Rubio, a crazy conspiracy nut, in the 2016 primary, went for Barack Obama in the 2008 primary. These people are the power elite. They aren't particularly wise (certainly less so than Trump), but they are particularly powerful. Trump must be wary of them. Fortunately, they made the job much easier for him by largely disavowing Trump before November. John McCain and David Frum thankfully aren't gonna have influence in the administration. The big risk is that the Democratic Party absorbs these people and becomes a totally evil party in every respect, making its victories even more devastating to the U.S. than Obama's (which could have been a lot worse if Obama was even remotely like FDR).

I disagree. The greatest threat along these lines is that Trump's own gross incompetence, combined with his rejection of the "establishment elite". They will combine to legitimize and empower them. That will leave us with another generation of a broken status quo, if the country survives at all.

He will basically turn us back to being stuck in the Simpsons or in 1991 USSR?

[Meclazine for Israel]

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief at how this controversial figure won the election. It's beyond my comprehension. Another thing beyond my comprehension is how so many of his supporters think that he is going to do great things for this country. I have no clue what they base their idea upon, but to be so certain that Trump is going to change anything for the better is only wishful thinking at this point. The supporters don't know anything more about the wild card Trump than do any of the rest of us.

Trump will run the country like a business. Someone needs to balance the books.

The current setup is unsustainable when you are $20 trillion in the hole.

I think Trump has some rather questionable personal characteristics as well, but as the USA rapidly approaches chapter 11, you will need someone to bring you out of the financial strife you are in.

Bad trade deals, immigration reform. You have to give the guy a chance.

We have not even started day 1 yet, so everything expressed is conjecture at this point.

[JJC]

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief at how this controversial figure won the election. It's beyond my comprehension. Another thing beyond my comprehension is how so many of his supporters think that he is going to do great things for this country. I have no clue what they base their idea upon, but to be so certain that Trump is going to change anything for the better is only wishful thinking at this point. The supporters don't know anything more about the wild card Trump than do any of the rest of us.

We already have tons of companies - from Ford, Carrier, Fiat, ect - that are moving jobs back to the US and the guy isn't even president yet. Consumer confidence is the highest since the 80s. All of the people Trump is appointing are those who have real world experience in the private sector - unlike Obama who's every appointee was either a politician, activist, or law professor (people who pushed their utopian ideas without even the slightest clue of how this impacted lives).

You see, the fact that some people can't understand why Trump won, and why people have hopes in his presidency shows how 'bubblized' people have become. I'd say the problem isn't 'Trump supporters'. The problem is you. Expand your horizon - don't just get your news from the MSM as if they're gospels of truth. They are partisan and have an agenda.

The issues that Trump talks about - Bad trade that benefits the wealthy and hurts the working class, jobs shipped overseas, an unsecured border and all the problems that come with it - he's the only one who really talked about these things. And unlike so many others, he wasn't bullied into abandoning them by the press.

I am cautiously optimistic about President Trump. The team he is putting together is impressive - not ideologues like Obama's team - but people with real world experience in their respective fields and understand the relationship between government action and private lives affected.

[TJ in Oregon]

Some people take their hatred of Trump a bit too far by delving into conspiracy theories, I'll certainly admit that. But honestly, what is the appropriate response to someone like Trump? Is it actually possible for people on the left to communicate our frustration in a way that doesn't anger the right? This is not merely a matter of disappointment over someone on the "red team" winning, but outrage and fear over someone who we view as dangerously unfit to be Commander in Chief.

I don't think it's completely fair to compare the negative reaction and opposition to Trump to the reaction to Obama from the right. Obama did not run the same kind of campaign Trump ran. He did not win under the same circumstances as Trump. Even setting policies aside, he is simply not the same kind of person as Trump. Yes, the reaction on the left is partially due the probability of a more conservative agenda being pushed. However, it's definitely more than that, and I'm not talking about Russia. To those of us on the left, Trump embodies some of the most destructive traits of humanity. He's narcissistic. He's childish. He has no self restraint. He lies constantly. He does regularly "speak his mind", but there are times when it's really not appropriate to say the first thing that pops into your head, especially when you're going to be the POTUS.

Many Democrats and liberals have voiced their dissent through peaceful protests. Many have brought up specific policy issues which we are concerned about. Many have spoken candidly about their fear for what will happen to their friends who are immigrants or are Muslim. And yet, even in these cases, where people are more diplomatic, they're often dismissed as being "sore losers" who need to stop complaining and "give Trump a chance." I'm convinced that for many people, any form of dissent is unacceptable. Even when we try to be polite and diplomatic when speaking about someone who doesn't seem to believe in such ideas as politeness and diplomacy, we're called hypocrites, since we didn't like how Republicans reacted to Obama. (Not all forms of dissent are the same, mind you)

So again, I ask, what is the appropriate way to voice dissent over someone who we believe will take the country backwards?

When I was an undergraduate, I took a general education writing class in which I had to read a book comprised of unhinged feminist criticisms of science (Mammals are only called mammals because Carl Linnaeus was obsessed with breasts!! etc.). My professor, who was an admitted far lefty but one who was adamant about not marking people down for disagreeing with him, assigned us an essay critiquing the book. I, a budding young conservative, took up the challenge with relish to pen a scathing evisceration of the author in my essay. When I got it back graded, my professor did not argue with my claims, but instead pointed out that while I called out the author for relentlessly impugning the motives of her opponents, I did the same thing as her. I was so utterly disarmed that his response has stuck with me to today.

I think that story has a lesson in it too for the anti-Trump left. We all have bogeymen in whom we can see no good. Yet, it remains incredibly important to maintain perspective and keep our criticisms constrained to testifying to the wrong, not deciding the boogeyman is so bad that any hammer is good enough to beat him with. Often when no one is listening to me, I have to recognize that my problem is something other than a need to stand on a bigger chair, grab a bigger megaphone, and yell louder. There are some situations where a more forceful opinion is a more convincing one, but there are also many where a more forceful opinion is playing into your opponent's hands.

Trump's rise to power is built on exaggerated, unhinged, and misplaced criticism, which ended up backfiring on those given it. Take the Russia hysteria for example: suddenly it seems like close to 40% of the country is clamoring for a war with Russia; it has a feeling almost reminiscent of the lead up to the invasion of Iraq in its sentiment. But it's also lacking in perspective. Iraq was not then the threat that fear made it and Russia is not now.

Yes, peaceful protest is also part of why the left looks horrible. You have every right to protest. I have every right to walk around Library Mall tomorrow with printed copies of pictures of aborted fetuses. It would help me express my frustration for the reality that abortion is still legal. Yet, in both cases doing so is detrimental to the respective causes. There is something about American culture that reacts in disgust to outspoken campaigning for a cause.

Now, I am not accusing you of Trump Derangement Syndrome; your criticism was measured and worthy of response. You, despite contributing respectful discourse will still be lumped by your opponents in the same vein as the apocalyptic folks. Political enemies tend to do that. My advice would be to again respectfully disagree with and ignore them. One day their ten minutes of national narrative will have expired and your points of legitimate criticism will remain. Some of us have been living in the world of trying to give measured respectful discourse and met with hysterical screaming masses for most of the last decade. If you maintain a firmly held genuine conviction with an honest intent to seek what is good for others, you will be vindicated in the end.

[Hermit For Peace]

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief at how this controversial figure won the election. It's beyond my comprehension. Another thing beyond my comprehension is how so many of his supporters think that he is going to do great things for this country. I have no clue what they base their idea upon, but to be so certain that Trump is going to change anything for the better is only wishful thinking at this point. The supporters don't know anything more about the wild card Trump than do any of the rest of us.

We already have tons of companies - from Ford, Carrier, Fiat, ect - that are moving jobs back to the US and the guy isn't even president yet. Consumer confidence is the highest since the 80s. All of the people Trump is appointing are those who have real world experience in the private sector - unlike Obama who's every appointee was either a politician, activist, or law professor (people who pushed their utopian ideas without even the slightest clue of how this impacted lives).

You see, the fact that some people can't understand why Trump won, and why people have hopes in his presidency shows how 'bubblized' people have become. I'd say the problem isn't 'Trump supporters'. The problem is you. Expand your horizon - don't just get your news from the MSM as if they're gospels of truth. They are partisan and have an agenda.

The issues that Trump talks about - Bad trade that benefits the wealthy and hurts the working class, jobs shipped overseas, an unsecured border and all the problems that come with it - he's the only one who really talked about these things. And unlike so many others, he wasn't bullied into abandoning them by the press.

I am cautiously optimistic about President Trump. The team he is putting together is impressive - not ideologues like Obama's team - but people with real world experience in their respective fields and understand the relationship between government action and private lives affected.

Got your rose-colored glasses on, I see....

[Xing]

Some people take their hatred of Trump a bit too far by delving into conspiracy theories, I'll certainly admit that. But honestly, what is the appropriate response to someone like Trump? Is it actually possible for people on the left to communicate our frustration in a way that doesn't anger the right? This is not merely a matter of disappointment over someone on the "red team" winning, but outrage and fear over someone who we view as dangerously unfit to be Commander in Chief.

I don't think it's completely fair to compare the negative reaction and opposition to Trump to the reaction to Obama from the right. Obama did not run the same kind of campaign Trump ran. He did not win under the same circumstances as Trump. Even setting policies aside, he is simply not the same kind of person as Trump. Yes, the reaction on the left is partially due the probability of a more conservative agenda being pushed. However, it's definitely more than that, and I'm not talking about Russia. To those of us on the left, Trump embodies some of the most destructive traits of humanity. He's narcissistic. He's childish. He has no self restraint. He lies constantly. He does regularly "speak his mind", but there are times when it's really not appropriate to say the first thing that pops into your head, especially when you're going to be the POTUS.

Many Democrats and liberals have voiced their dissent through peaceful protests. Many have brought up specific policy issues which we are concerned about. Many have spoken candidly about their fear for what will happen to their friends who are immigrants or are Muslim. And yet, even in these cases, where people are more diplomatic, they're often dismissed as being "sore losers" who need to stop complaining and "give Trump a chance." I'm convinced that for many people, any form of dissent is unacceptable. Even when we try to be polite and diplomatic when speaking about someone who doesn't seem to believe in such ideas as politeness and diplomacy, we're called hypocrites, since we didn't like how Republicans reacted to Obama. (Not all forms of dissent are the same, mind you)

So again, I ask, what is the appropriate way to voice dissent over someone who we believe will take the country backwards?

When I was an undergraduate, I took a general education writing class in which I had to read a book comprised of unhinged feminist criticisms of science (Mammals are only called mammals because Carl Linnaeus was obsessed with breasts!! etc.). My professor, who was an admitted far lefty but one who was adamant about not marking people down for disagreeing with him, assigned us an essay critiquing the book. I, a budding young conservative, took up the challenge with relish to pen a scathing evisceration of the author in my essay. When I got it back graded, my professor did not argue with my claims, but instead pointed out that while I called out the author for relentlessly impugning the motives of her opponents, I did the same thing as her. I was so utterly disarmed that his response has stuck with me to today.

I think that story has a lesson in it too for the anti-Trump left. We all have bogeymen in whom we can see no good. Yet, it remains incredibly important to maintain perspective and keep our criticisms constrained to testifying to the wrong, not deciding the boogeyman is so bad that any hammer is good enough to beat him with. Often when no one is listening to me, I have to recognize that my problem is something other than a need to stand on a bigger chair, grab a bigger megaphone, and yell louder. There are some situations where a more forceful opinion is a more convincing one, but there are also many where a more forceful opinion is playing into your opponent's hands.

Trump's rise to power is built on exaggerated, unhinged, and misplaced criticism, which ended up backfiring on those given it. Take the Russia hysteria for example: suddenly it seems like close to 40% of the country is clamoring for a war with Russia; it has a feeling almost reminiscent of the lead up to the invasion of Iraq in its sentiment. But it's also lacking in perspective. Iraq was not then the threat that fear made it and Russia is not now.

Yes, peaceful protest is also part of why the left looks horrible. You have every right to protest. I have every right to walk around Library Mall tomorrow with printed copies of pictures of aborted fetuses. It would help me express my frustration for the reality that abortion is still legal. Yet, in both cases doing so is detrimental to the respective causes. There is something about American culture that reacts in disgust to outspoken campaigning for a cause.

Now, I am not accusing you of Trump Derangement Syndrome; your criticism was measured and worthy of response. You, despite contributing respectful discourse will still be lumped by your opponents in the same vein as the apocalyptic folks. Political enemies tend to do that. My advice would be to again respectfully disagree with and ignore them. One day their ten minutes of national narrative will have expired and your points of legitimate criticism will remain. Some of us have been living in the world of trying to give measured respectful discourse and met with hysterical screaming masses for most of the last decade. If you maintain a firmly held genuine conviction with an honest intent to seek what is good for others, you will be vindicated in the end.

You make several good points, and I hope that your final point proves to be accurate, in the end. However, it increasingly seems to be the case that those who scream the loudest get to drive the narrative of their side. It's certainly true that conservatives who had legitimate criticisms of Obama were drowned out by those who opposed him for the sake of opposing him. However, it is not the case that a principled conservative who wants to promote respectful discourse won the 2016 election. Bluster and anger prevailed, and it seems to be taking over both sides, now. My biggest fear is that the next Democrat to win the White House will be Trump-like, and will largely just exploit anger and frustration on the left, while liberals and progressives who actually want to debate policy will end up getting drowned out.

It may be the case that protesters are not helping their cause, and only make the left look bad. On the other hand, I don't think all of them suffer from "Trump derangement syndrome" and many are simply very fearful of the next four to eight years, and want to express their views in a way that gains attention, but does not harm others. I think it's important to understand where they're coming from before discouraging them from protesting.

I'll admit that many of us on the left didn't do a good enough job of listening over the past eight years, and were too quick to lump everyone on the right together. Many had the attitude: "We won, our worldview has been vindicated. Yours is wrong." I'm seeing that same attitude among many Trump supporters, and I know that this attitude never serves anyone well, in the long run. As I've said, I hope that you're right about genuine conviction prevailing in the end, but it seems we're still a long way from that.

[pbrower2a]

Donald Trump and the semi-fascist American Right will be taken down intellectually before it is taken down politically. If not intellectually, then by foreign powers following wars for profit that turn out badly. Governments that attempt to impose a New Feudalism tend to become as reckless in military policy as feudal-era societies.

There will be plenty to criticize about Donald Trump, and on a rational basis. To "Make America Great Again" as he understands it would be to return to the norms of the latter part of the Gilded Age, a time in which owners had all power and workers had none. Sure, there was full employment and a labor shortage so severe that working-class kids were dragooned into the work force because their parents were worn out by age 40 (if not already dead) by the 80-hour workweeks of the time.

Economic nostalgia makes bad social policy. Demagogues exploit it all the time: Mussolini and Hitler both made much of "Back to the Soil" movements to reconnect industrial workers to farming instead of to the distress of materialistic capitalism in the factory. Racist pigs of the Old South often made much of their attempts to keep the South 'pure' of the nefarious effects of industrialism upon a tradition-guided society. Marxism has nostalgia for the alleged ease of hunter-gatherer life (it was not so great as some anthropologists saw it) because there is no further need for the inequality that the divide between workers and owners necessitates.   The raw truth was that mechanization of farming made the need for farm toil less compelling.

But can America return to the "Good Old Days" of the 1920s, when anyone who wanted a job could get one? Maybe -- but we wouldn't like it. We are no longer made for it.

It is hard to imagine anything much crazier than a headlong rush to the economic norms of early capitalism, the brutal time in which workers were helpless wretches suffering for the greed and indulgence of rapacious plutocrats responsible only to themselves. Such is a pre-revolutionary situation, the sort that creates the kindling for a Marxist insurrection when the political order faces economic catastrophe or military calamity.

It is the American Right that is now mostly deranged -- but worse, utterly immoral. There are few moderate conservatives left in the American political order.  

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump derangement syndrome is a much bigger problem than Obama derangement syndrome because the same elite bubbles that went for Marco Rubio, a crazy conspiracy nut, in the 2016 primary, went for Barack Obama in the 2008 primary. These people are the power elite. They aren't particularly wise (certainly less so than Trump), but they are particularly powerful. Trump must be wary of them. Fortunately, they made the job much easier for him by largely disavowing Trump before November. John McCain and David Frum thankfully aren't gonna have influence in the administration. The big risk is that the Democratic Party absorbs these people and becomes a totally evil party in every respect, making its victories even more devastating to the U.S. than Obama's (which could have been a lot worse if Obama was even remotely like FDR).

I disagree. The greatest threat along these lines is that Trump's own gross incompetence, combined with his rejection of the "establishment elite". They will combine to legitimize and empower them. That will leave us with another generation of a broken status quo, if the country survives at all.

He will basically turn us back to being stuck in the Simpsons or in 1991 USSR?

Not exactly. It's more that he could amplify some of the worst mistakes of the past 30 years.

For example, look at how swiftly many democrats have become hostile to Russia. (Remember when Obama was going "too easy" on Putin - less than 2 years ago?) Now, imagine a post-Trump world where he was a complete disaster. At that point anyone who doesn't support he eventual obliteration of Russia by nuclear fire could easily be labeled a "Trump holdout" and discredited.

Or, to put it another way, there are real problems in America today that come from decades of bad government by the GOP AND the Dems. If things (financial, security, social, etc) blow up on Trump's watch, he'll be holding the bag, and both parties will use him to dodge the blame they should really have a part of. And then the same idiots who voted for Trump will now be voting for Obama Mk II, corporate tool.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

If you expect us, or even a majority of Americans, to show the slightest bit of respect for that embarrassment of a man, then think again.

Hamilton Nolan over at Deadspin has a nice piece on why we should not respect Trump:

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/this-is-why-you-dont-kiss-the-ring-1791079856

It's  another "don't normalize him" warning. I think it's very important to remember this. The United States, like most places, has a great many unwritten rules that are essential to keep society functioning. Trump has built a career, and certainly a political career, on breaking and exploiting those rules.

Allowing Trump to function as a normal president, is to willingly submit to the con.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Remember kids, if you feel bad that a literal manchild is the most powerful man in the earth being backed up by a team of Randian Social Darwinists in congress, that's not good! It's not cool to care about stuff!

[MasterJedi]

Only people I know who have TDS voted for President Pussygrabber.

[Comrade Funk]

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief at how this controversial figure won the election. It's beyond my comprehension. Another thing beyond my comprehension is how so many of his supporters think that he is going to do great things for this country. I have no clue what they base their idea upon, but to be so certain that Trump is going to change anything for the better is only wishful thinking at this point. The supporters don't know anything more about the wild card Trump than do any of the rest of us.

Because this country is stupid. Just look at modern American society.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Remember kids, if you feel bad that a literal manchild is the most powerful man in the earth being backed up by a team of Randian Social Darwinists in congress, that's not good! It's not cool to care about stuff!

     Criticizing Trump as President is slightly different from believing a Buzzfeed article that acknowledges its sources might be false (for an equivalent among respectable journalism, this would be like Rachel Maddow reporting something she overheard some random dude say in a bar) just because it comports with what you want to believe.