Opinion of MY version of ProLife
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  Opinion of MY version of ProLife
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Question: ProLife on Abortion, Anti-Euthanesia, Anti-Death Penalty, Anti-Torture, Military Action is a last resort.
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Author Topic: Opinion of MY version of ProLife  (Read 3216 times)
Illiniwek
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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2017, 07:58:26 AM »


So you're for universal healthcare, and for a welfare state that looks out for the poor, with  high levels of taxation on the rich to provide resources to essential services for society, that save people's lives.

Oh wait no...
Well, I am.
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Young Conservative
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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2017, 08:26:43 AM »

No because human life is different than the lives or other animals.
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Intell
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2017, 08:36:21 AM »



So you're for universal healthcare, and for a welfare state that looks out for the poor, with  high levels of taxation on the rich to provide resources to essential services for society, that save people's lives.

Oh wait no...
Well, I am.

Again this was not directed to you, I personally also am pro-life.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 08:42:48 AM »

Consistent on human rights?  Massive Freedom Ideology.
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« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 09:51:04 AM »

No because human life is different than the lives or other animals.

An octopus has more sentience than an embryo.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 10:21:52 AM »

*Fruitarian?

Plants are living creatures too!
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 03:17:02 PM »

No because human life is different than the lives or other animals.

An octopus sea slug has more sentience than an embryo.

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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2017, 04:19:59 PM »

Well, I'd probably disagree with you on a few issues, but at least what you described does seem pretty consistent. What are your thoughts on refugees?
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2017, 04:42:15 PM »

But an embryo has the potential to develop into a human being... whereas a slug and octopus are a slug and octopus...

Not the sharpest argument.

I am pro-choice, by the way.

So what? All human gametes have the potential to form human life, and we don't get angry about women having periods.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2017, 05:26:34 PM »

No because human life is different than the lives or other animals.

An octopus has more sentience than an embryo.

That's good. Silent Cal eats neither.
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2017, 06:02:16 PM »

Life is bad.  Horrible ideology.
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2017, 06:12:02 PM »


So you're for universal healthcare, and for a welfare state that looks out for the poor, with  high levels of taxation on the rich to provide resources to essential services for society, that save people's lives.

Oh wait no...
Well, I am.

^

And I'm a semi-vegetarian and would definitely be a more thoroughgoing vegetarian if I had stronger and more consequent moral behaviors.

But an embryo has the potential to develop into a human being... whereas a slug and octopus are a slug and octopus...

Not the sharpest argument.

I am pro-choice, by the way.

So what? All human gametes have the potential to form human life, and we don't get angry about women having periods.

There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.
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Person Man
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2017, 06:52:38 PM »


So you're for universal healthcare, and for a welfare state that looks out for the poor, with  high levels of taxation on the rich to provide resources to essential services for society, that save people's lives.

Oh wait no...
Well, I am.

^

And I'm a semi-vegetarian and would definitely be a more thoroughgoing vegetarian if I had stronger and more consequent moral behaviors.

But an embryo has the potential to develop into a human being... whereas a slug and octopus are a slug and octopus...

Not the sharpest argument.

I am pro-choice, by the way.

So what? All human gametes have the potential to form human life, and we don't get angry about women having periods.

There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

but the conceptus still has fuse with the uterine wall. :/ I think, using that standard, either masturbation is murder or there are no felonious moral consequences for using an IUD or getting tissue transplants to regenerate diseased, wasting, or stunted tissues derived from the cells of embryos.
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Intell
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2017, 07:18:19 PM »
« Edited: January 10, 2017, 08:01:38 PM by Intell »


So you're for universal healthcare, and for a welfare state that looks out for the poor, with  high levels of taxation on the rich to provide resources to essential services for society, that save people's lives.

Oh wait no...
Well, I am.

Again not directed at you, as I also am personally pro-life.

+ Mastrubation is not murder, as the release of sperm, that would not be used for the development of human life is not murder. Neither is a condom/contraception, which prevents a pregnancy, or the morning after pill, which also prevents a pregnancy. Once there is a pregnancy, there is life, and taking the life, which is human life is immoral.
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Nathan
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2017, 08:46:53 PM »
« Edited: January 10, 2017, 08:49:30 PM by Night on the Galactic Mass Pike »

I just think there's a non-trivial moral difference to whether something is genetically a separate entity or not--yes, I think this for religious reasons, but I think there's a non-sectarian philosophical argument to be made for it as well. Now, twinning, there's a thornier conceptual question.

Alas, I am but a humanities person, relatively ignorant of things whereof TJ, for example, could probably say more.
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Young Conservative
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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2017, 09:42:32 PM »

Well, I'd probably disagree with you on a few issues, but at least what you described does seem pretty consistent. What are your thoughts on refugees?
I am extremely undecided on the issue, but lean towards supporting allowing families who pass the vetting and meet the qualifications for a refugee (which is highly specific). I definitely think that countries nearby should take more refugees, considering it is just more plausible since they are closer and more similar.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2017, 11:33:51 PM »

     I disagree on several points, but you aren't going to get a lot of support for a system of positions that demands agreement across the board. The motivation behind these views is quite admirable, at least.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2017, 01:15:55 AM »

There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

That is implied when one's rebuttal to a pro-life argument is "sea slugs are more sentient then embryos".
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Nathan
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« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2017, 03:11:42 AM »

There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

That is implied when one's rebuttal to a pro-life argument is "sea slugs are more sentient then embryos".

I know, but why go beyond that and start piling on arguments that are much worse to boot?
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2017, 09:16:28 AM »

There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

That is implied when one's rebuttal to a pro-life argument is "sea slugs are more sentient then embryos".

I know, but why go beyond that and start piling on arguments that are much worse to boot?

The other argument was a rebuttal to a counterargument. Frankly, its pretty dumb to seperate embryos from gametes. "Gamates are okay to kill because their just a cell containing the genetic information of one person. But embryos have genetic info from 2 people. And it takes slightly fewer reactions to turn one  into a conciousness. They must be fully human!
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« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2017, 10:25:12 AM »

There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

That is implied when one's rebuttal to a pro-life argument is "sea slugs are more sentient then embryos".

I know, but why go beyond that and start piling on arguments that are much worse to boot?

The other argument was a rebuttal to a counterargument. Frankly, its pretty dumb to seperate embryos from gametes. "Gamates are okay to kill because their just a cell containing the genetic information of one person. But embryos have genetic info from 2 people. And it takes slightly fewer reactions to turn one  into a conciousness. They must be fully human!

And even when gametes fuse, there is no pregnancy.
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Figueira
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« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2017, 11:09:44 AM »

I mean, I agree accept on euthanasia and abortion, but if you really care about life you need to be at least moderate on economics if not left-wing.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2017, 11:17:16 AM »

Not a fan, but I respect where it's coming from. As others have pointed out, support for a comprehensive welfare state should be a key part of it, though.
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RFayette
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« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2017, 01:43:00 PM »

I am pro-life on abortion and am generally a fan of a more restrained foreign policy, but very strongly in support of the death penalty, but overall I'd list those as a FF set of policies
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« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2017, 04:01:03 PM »

There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

That is implied when one's rebuttal to a pro-life argument is "sea slugs are more sentient then embryos".

I know, but why go beyond that and start piling on arguments that are much worse to boot?

The other argument was a rebuttal to a counterargument. Frankly, its pretty dumb to seperate embryos from gametes. "Gamates are okay to kill because their just a cell containing the genetic information of one person. But embryos have genetic info from 2 people. And it takes slightly fewer reactions to turn one  into a conciousness. They must be fully human!

It's a new life and a unique individual organism, biologically and genetically human. It's not dumb to see value in that. Your view of what imparts value to human life just happens to be more limited.
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