Who was the most pro Israel president and most anti Israel president
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  Who was the most pro Israel president and most anti Israel president
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Author Topic: Who was the most pro Israel president and most anti Israel president  (Read 705 times)
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« on: January 09, 2017, 10:33:33 PM »
« edited: January 10, 2017, 12:07:50 PM by Old School Republican »

This is how I Would say is three most and three least

Most

1. Truman
2. Nixon
3. W Bush


Anti

1. Carter
2. Obama
3 . Eisenhower


Most pro isreal dem president other then Truman was LBJ most anti Israel us republican was probably Eisenhower
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Deblano
EdgarAllenYOLO
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 10:46:54 PM »

Reagan especially gave a sharp criticism to Israel when they bombed that Iraqi nuclear facility in 1981
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 10:57:14 PM »

Reagan especially gave a sharp criticism to Israel when they bombed that Iraqi nuclear facility in 1981

Nothing compared to noted antisemite Harry Truman:
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/1435930/Truman-diary-reveals-scorn-for-cruel-Jews.html

Nixon was anti-Semite yet he was as pro Israel as u get .
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 11:06:21 PM »

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Huge anti-semite is ranked second...damn.

I got my list:

Most Pro-Israel:
1. Kennedy
2. W. Bush
3. Clinton

Least Pro-Israel
1.Carter
2. Reagan
3. Bush, Sr.
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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2017, 11:59:54 PM »

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Huge anti-semite is ranked second...damn.

I got my list:

Most Pro-Israel:
1. Kennedy
2. W. Bush
3. Clinton

Least Pro-Israel
1.Carter
2. Reagan
3. Bush, Sr.

Nixon saved Israel in 1973
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Deblano
EdgarAllenYOLO
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 12:28:02 AM »

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Huge anti-semite is ranked second...damn.

I got my list:

Most Pro-Israel:
1. Kennedy
2. W. Bush
3. Clinton

Least Pro-Israel
1.Carter
2. Reagan
3. Bush, Sr.

Nixon saved Israel in 1973

Back in the old days, you had presidents who supported Israel purely for geopolitical reasons (US backed Israel vs Soviet backed Arab League) but were pretty suspicious of "the Jews", to put it bluntly

Nixon and Truman were prime examples of these types of presidents.
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ag
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 01:16:33 AM »
« Edited: January 10, 2017, 01:20:18 AM by ag »


Back in the old days, you had presidents who supported Israel purely for geopolitical reasons (US backed Israel vs Soviet backed Arab League) but were pretty suspicious of "the Jews", to put it bluntly

Nixon and Truman were prime examples of these types of presidents.

Truman is a complicated case. By the standards of his age he was not particularly anti-semitic. He had gone into business with a Jewish partner  (his old WWI mate) and was, generally, fairly well-disposed to individual Jews. His prejudices were the common prejudices of his time: atrocious by modern standards, but, actually, not particularly distinguishing him individually from what was then the mainstream. He was no Ford or Lindbergh. Remember, back in the 1920s, when Truman was my age, Jews were generally not accepted in much of the society: not in academia, not in many business circles (and, mind it, he was not a New Yorker either).  His diary comments quoted above also come from a particular context: taken out of it they sound quite a bit worse than they were. And, of course, his attitude towards Israel could not be fully based on cold war considerations: back at the time the Soviet Union had not decided whom to support in the Middle East. The new state was ruled by Russian-speaking Marxist-oriented leftists and would seem a natural ally for the USSR (which, mind it, recognised it simultaneously with the US). If anything, he was making a non-obvious choice in the context of the beginning cold war.

Truman's greatness, in fact, has often been in transcending the prejudices and limitations of his upbringing. He came from a southern-identifying family and has made his share of racist comments and observations as well. His mother hated Lincoln - and he venerated his mother. Nevertheless is was he who integrated the army and made first major steps towards the civil rights reform. He was a man of a very different age, who, in fact, was instrumental in creating modernity as we knew it growing up. But to understand him one still has to understand his age.

Nixon is a rather different case, of course. To begin with, he was almost thirty years younger: a man of a very different age.
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jfern
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 04:59:39 AM »

Well, if there were any politicians willing to criticize Israel, the time period to look would be 1967, after the 6 day war of Israel aggression and their murders of 34 US sailors on the USS Liberty.
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SATW
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 05:31:02 AM »

All Presidents have criticized Israel, just like they've criticized a lot of our allies. This is important to note. It is also important to view each President's personal views of Israel too.

Also, in relation to Nixon: a famous Rabbi said recently that there are two types of people when it comes to Israel. 1.) People who love Jews/Israel but will make it do harmful things to itself 2.) People
 are suspicious of Jews/Israel but it defend it when it matters most.

His example for the first was Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and for his second Richard Nixon. The Rabbi says he prefers the 2nd option. As do I.


My List:


1. Truman
2. Reagan
3. Clinton
4. W. Bush
5. LBJ
6. JFK
7. H.W. Bush
8. Nixon
9. Ford
10. Eisenhower
11. Obama
12. Carter

1. Harry Truman: Supporting the partition plan and Israeli independence were some of the hardest but most important decisions Mr. Truman ever made (along with the Marshall Plan, and dropping the bombs). Without Harry Truman, and without his aides, Clark Clifford and David Niles, and his close friend Eddie Jacobson, there would be no state of Israel. His bravery in supporting the Jewish people's aspirations for statehood (for whatever political reasons it may have been) is enough to easily put him at #1.
2. Ronald Reagan: Yes, he criticized Israel on multiple issues, but there was never a doubt that Reagan, personally, was extremely fond of Israel as a country and of Jews as a people. His nomination of people like Jeane Kirkpatrick, Alexander Haig, George Schultz, Elliott Abrams and others proves his Pro-Israel mettle. Reagan also was the first President to intimately and formally create a structural basis for U.S.-Israel ties when it came to military/defense cooperation:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Cooperation_Agreement
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Political_Military_Group
Reagan also, while criticizing Israel on some of it's military actions, understood Israel's rationale behind them (http://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/17/world/reagan-asserts-israel-had-cause-to-mistrust-iraq.html).
Reagan also aided Jewish efforts to help Soviet Jews, a key interest and concern to Israel.
Finally, here's a nice clip of Dennis Ross explaining the importance Reagan had in relations to US-Israel Relations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-wUEIRZS4Y
Putting Reagan down as Anti-Israel is ridiculous and a hackish attempt to defend actually anti-Israel Presidents.
3. Bill Clinton: No President had a more special bond with Israel and its leadership while in office then Bill Clinton. Clinton had amazing friendships and alliances with Yitzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres and Ehud Barak. Also, unlike one of his successors, he had a decent (but still tense) relationship with Benjamin Netanyahu. Reagan and Bush set the wheels in motion for the peace process, but Clinton actually did a lot of the dirty work AND got Israel to agree with most of his views. Clinton helped Israel negotiate peace w/ Jordan and quietly got Jerusalem and Damascus to discuss the prospect of peace in the 1990s. Clinton was the kumbaya president when it came to US-Israel relations. I'm confused why Moderate hero republican put Clinton as one of the most Anti-Israel presidents. There is nothing to back up this assumption. Only hackish GOP yes-men would legitimately think Clinton was Anti-Israel
4. George W. Bush: A mixture of Reagan and Bush. He had the personal love of Israel that Reagan did, and the political sympathy towards Israel that Clinton had. Clinton-W. Bush (1993-2009) represented the most Pro-Israel era in American history. Bush always understood the importance of Israel's security concerns and, like Reagan, realized the strategic importance of Israel as an ally. Like Clinton, pushed, in a meaningful way, the peace process.
5. Lyndon B. Johnson: First U.S. President to have a true, personal yearning for Israel's soul. His christian beliefs led him to want to take Pro-Israel positions. LBJ was ultimately too pre-occupied with Vietnam to tango with Middle East issues, but he was easily one of the most Pro-Israel Presidents. LBJ continued JFK's historic decision to start selling weapons to Israel (via 210 tanks and 48 Skyhawks, as Dennis Ross notes in his latest book). LBJ also appreciated Israel in the sense that they did not stick their nose in his Vietnam policies.
6. John F. Kennedy: One cannot understate the importance of JFK's role in regards to Israel. He undid the massive mistakes of the Eisenhower regime in regards to Israel. JFK believed in having a policy of balance in regards to the ME. This included juggling American interests in the Arab world while also evening out our policies in regards to Israel. JFK became the first prez to sell weapons to Israel as well. JFK was critical of Israel in regards to its nuclear program because of his desire to have regional equilibrium.
7. George H.W. Bush: Surprised he's a head of Nixon? Don't be. George Bush Sr was publicly critical of Israel due to his ties to Arabist foreign policy and his own personal experience in middle east politics, via Arab cooperation during his business days. However, he helped Israel in many ways, as Dennis Ross points out routinely: "joint development of the Arrow ABM defense system, provision and staffing of Patriot missile batteries during the Gulf War, repeal of the Zionism is Racism resolution at the United Nations." Bush also aided Israel in the massive and heroic airlifts of Ethiopian Jews to Israel. H.W. Bush also continued Reagan's focus on helping Soviet Jews (http://www.sdjewishworld.com/2016/05/20/george-h-w-bush-soviet-jewry-priority/). Of course, Bush was still controversial in his handling of U.S-Israel relations. James Baker's dislike for Israel clearly influenced Bush. But, in some areas Baker was actually less critical then Bush due to Ross's friendship with Baker. H.W. Bush also got Israel to do things he wanted them to do (aka not attack Iraq during the Gulf war even when Hussein launched scud missiles into Israel).
8. Richard Nixon: Nixon, like Kennedy believed in a balanced  Middle East policy. like JFK, he is also considered to be Pro-Israel. But, like Eisenhower, he engaged in some harmful policies towards Israel, mainly forcing Israel into a corner right before the Yom Kippur war. Kissinger told Israel that if they attacked first then the U.S. would provide no back up. Israel listened, and suffered a ton, but ultimately, Nixon and Kissinger played a big role in saving Israel from destruction. His weird yet productive relationship with Golda Meir aided him in seeing a strategic use in regards to Israel. Nixon, to me, and to Dennis Ross, was generally a wash, maybe a slight tilt in the Pro-Israel direction.
9. Gerald Ford: Not much to say here, but like his other foreign policy positions, Gerry was not very refined or diplomatic. He sent relations with Israel into a crisis over the Sinai territory negotiations w/ Egypt. A ridiculous move, but he did wind up doing one positive thing for Israel: http://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/12/23/Ford-promised-to-help-Israel-keep-Golan/2016377931600/
10. Dwight Eisenhower: Eisenhower's entire foreign policy, imo, was a failure on balance, when it came to the Middle East. Of course, the Iran situation highlights his failure there. Along with his misguided attempts to win over an irrational Egypt. He also was extremely hostile to Israel on almost every level. He distrusted Israel on almost everything and then backstabbed Israel, the UK and France in regards to the Suez Canal Crisis. He preferred a pro-Arab world foreign policy that wound up devastating us in our cold war policy.
11. Barack Obama: He helped Israel finance and implement Iron Dome. His biggest accomplishment on Israel. His only new accomplishment on Israel. His Pro-Israel Cabinet members and staffers (Dennis Ross, Tom Donilon, James Steinberg, Hillary Clinton, Dan Shapiro) virtually ran all cooperation aspects of his Israel policy, thus leading to increased aid and military cooperation (which also occurred under every president since Reagan, so nothing special or new about this). However, he destroyed the Israeli-Palestinian dialogue that existed before him, emboldened Palestinian extremists, and colluded with international organizations and other countries to corner Israel on settlements, Iran and security issues. His horrible Iran deal will go down in history as a historic mistake. His refusal to demand any accountability from the Palestinians and his groupthink (along w/ Susan Rice, Jim Jones, John Kerry) personal dislike for Netanyahu has contributed to the deterioration of US-Israel relations. His B.S. at the UN to finish off 2016 may have permanently killed the two state solution and increased the likelihood for hostilities b/w Israel and the Palestinians.
12. Jimmy Carter: Ugh, Carter. He did help negotiate peace w/ Israel and Egypt, but he himself considered this a disappointment. He wanted some delusional comprehensive agreement to achieve peace in the entire Middle East. This ridiculous pipe dream implies that he believed making Israel make peace would solve all issues in the region (a false dichotomy that showcases his complete lack of knowledge on foreign policy). People also seem to forget that if either Sadat or Begin did not want to seriously make peace then he would've had no leverage or leeway on getting anything through. Of course, Carter also has created an Anti-Israel rep since leaving office, so his stuff in that regard places him dead last in my list.


Ultimately, I think Nixon, Ford, Eisenhower, [Obama] and Carter were the most critical presidents of Israel. Dennis Ross influenced my views greatly on this (except on Obama, where I always had this assumption. Ross was very meh on Obama). This article showcases his views a little more:    http://www.jewishjournal.com/cover_story/article/why_the_u.s._israel_relationship_is_doomed_to_succeed

Doomed to Succeed is his latest book (came out in 2015) and its a history of US-Israel Relations. I strongly recommend it, even if you hate Israel. I finished reading it in November and loved it.

* For those who don't know: Dennis Ross is a well-respect diplomat and peace negotiator who specifically work on Israel and the Palestinians during his career. He is a self-described Democrat but worked under Presidents Reagan, H.W. Bush, Clinton and Obama.
I'm also currently reading Israel's Defense Line, Her friends and foes in Washington, by I.L. Kenen (one of the founders of AIPAC) and will report on that book when I finish it, hopefully by the end of the next few weeks.

now, excuse me, im going to sleep now Tongue
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SATW
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 05:35:05 AM »

FTR, before the UN Res in Dec. 16, I had Eisenhower lower then Obama and Carter higher then Obama

so,

Carter
Obama
Eisenhower

I also had Clinton and W. ahead of Reagan and H.W. Bush below Nixon and Ford before I read the Ross book.

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OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2017, 12:07:20 PM »
« Edited: January 10, 2017, 12:21:54 PM by Old School Republican »

FTR, before the UN Res in Dec. 16, I had Eisenhower lower then Obama and Carter higher then Obama

so,

Carter
Obama
Eisenhower

I also had Clinton and W. ahead of Reagan and H.W. Bush below Nixon and Ford before I read the Ross book.



People tell me Clinton had bad relations with Israel i the 90s that's why but  your right and I will replace Clinton with Ike on here. also I am amazed how much knowledge you have about Israeli politics which is amazing.
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2017, 12:44:11 PM »

In terms of their actual actions in office, Obama is undeniably the worst. In terms of overall, probably Carter.

Most pro-Israel, probably Nixon based on actions with Dubya as a close second.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2017, 01:51:14 PM »

The only presidents who ever put any significant pressure on Israel to do something they didn't want to do were Eisenhower, Carter and Bush Sr.

At the other end, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon were Israel's biggest "enablers."
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SATW
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2017, 02:35:29 PM »

FTR, before the UN Res in Dec. 16, I had Eisenhower lower then Obama and Carter higher then Obama

so,

Carter
Obama
Eisenhower

I also had Clinton and W. ahead of Reagan and H.W. Bush below Nixon and Ford before I read the Ross book.



People tell me Clinton had bad relations with Israel i the 90s that's why but  your right and I will replace Clinton with Ike on here. also I am amazed how much knowledge you have about Israeli politics which is amazing.

Thanks, appreciate it. I've been trying to grow my knowledge on all things middle east the past few years. After Israel-Palestinians, I think I'll be trying to learn more about the Kurds and Druze.
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SWE
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2017, 10:39:35 PM »

The most anti-Israel Presidents were all of the ones pre-Truman who, collectively provided zero support to the Israeli government.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 11:03:19 PM »

Reagan especially gave a sharp criticism to Israel when they bombed that Iraqi nuclear facility in 1981

Nothing compared to noted antisemite Harry Truman:
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/1435930/Truman-diary-reveals-scorn-for-cruel-Jews.html

Don't many Democrats and even some independents criticize Jews for their treatment of minorities in modern Israel? This seems remarkably similar.
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Eharding
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« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2017, 11:29:11 PM »

Most pro:
WJC
Nixon
LBJ

Most anti:
Eisenhower
Bush Sr
Obama
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