What if the Democrats moderated on abortion?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If the Democrats moderated on abortion, I'd seriously consider changing parties.

Then just do it now and help them take the first step.

I would think that you of all people would want Inks to remain a Republican.

Unless I'm misunderstanding him, he more or less insinuated the major roadblock to him becoming a Democrat is the abortion issue, which leads me to believe his non-abortion views are left-of-center?  As someone who wants the GOP to be a big tent party on the issue of abortion (I'd prefer we remain clearly pro-life but tolerate candidates who feel differently and DEFINITELY support moderate measures like exceptions for life of the mother, rape, incest, etc.), I am not a fan of such a presence in our party, as it pretty much drags us left on (what I believe to be) the wrong issues.

Unless he's views chzanged fairly recently, which I suppose is possible, Inks is actually pretty conservative. I think he feels alienated from the Republican Party because of Trump and the various shenanigans Congress has pulled during the Obama years, such as last year's Supreme Court vacancy debacle, so the Democrats shifting to left on any major issues would make a party switch tempting. I mean, it's possible I'm wrong and he's shifted to the left, but in that case he need to update his PM score.

I'm still fiscally conservative, and my social views are mixed. Energy and environmental issues have become increasingly important to me, and while I think environmentalists often take their ideals to the extreme to the point that they kill any chance of achieving what they want, most of the GOP's stances on environmental issues are horrible.

The GOP's stance on minimum wage is not economically sound. If you're not going to adjust for inflation, you might as well abolish it completely. Arbitrarily set minimum wages with huge jumps every several years to compensate for years of unaccounted for inflation shocks the economy and damages it far more than adjusting it appropriately would.

While I'm not a fan of everything in the ACA, I foresee the GOP really bungling this issue, especially because they want to retain preexisting conditions protections while removing the individual mandate, which will almost certainly lead to an unsustainable insurance situation.

I think the nonconfirmation of Garland was one of the single most harmful things to the Court in the history of the nation.

I can't stand the anti-immigrant stance of many in the GOP and think that building a wall is going to be a waste of money, although I'm not opposed to it on principle.

If the GOP were truly fiscally conservative with policies based in rational economics, that'd keep me a lot more committed to the party. But now their policies are just largely crap.

[Figueira]

What if the Republicans moderated on the economy and supported nationalising banks/ industry and wealth confiscation?

What if Libertarians moderated on foreign policy and supported sending NATO troops to Ukraine and bombing Iran?

What if the Greens moderated on environmental policy and supported climate change denial and lifting all restrictions on whaling?

[WVdemocrat]

Defunding PP is not "moderate" it's a stupid idea that research shows does more harm then stoping abortion

The idea that the government should be funding private business in the first place is extreme.

Then defund Amtrak.

[Santander]

Defunding PP is not "moderate" it's a stupid idea that research shows does more harm then stoping abortion

The idea that the government should be funding private business in the first place is extreme.

Then defund Amtrak.

Amtrak is owned by the government.

[Person Man]

Defunding PP is not "moderate" it's a stupid idea that research shows does more harm then stoping abortion

The idea that the government should be funding private business in the first place is extreme.

Then defund Amtrak.

Amtrak is owned by the government.

And then there's the fossil fuel companies. In Wyoming, they are considering banning competitors from selling power there.

[bore]

The triumphalist social liberals in this thread invoking Europe as a pro abortion nirvana really need to look at the actual abortion laws in Europe.

Basically it comes up far less as a political issue in large part because the laws are a messy compromise which satisfy neither activist pro choicers or activist pro lifers (although because of when the majority of abortions occur the arrangement obviously favours pro choicers)

[ApatheticAustrian]

what the hell would "moderation" even mean?

the republicans become more radical regarding this question so the "center" is chaging all the time.

[ApatheticAustrian]

The triumphalist social liberals in this thread invoking Europe as a pro abortion nirvana really need to look at the actual abortion laws in Europe.

Basically it comes up far less as a political issue in large part because the laws are a messy compromise which satisfy neither activist pro choicers or activist pro lifers (although because of when the majority of abortions occur the arrangement obviously favours pro choicers)

usually, afaik, there are restrictions regarding the timeline......but there is no major party in western europe which is able to make a winning topic out of outlawing abortions.

fits the general theme of weakening religion inside of europe.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Forcing people to fund Planned Parenthood is an extreme position.  It is in no way moderate to take people's money to pay for abortion.

[Devout Centrist]

Forcing people to fund Planned Parenthood is an extreme position.  It is in no way moderate to take people's money to pay for abortion.

1. The Hyde Amendment.
2. Your money pays for hellfire missiles that have kill innocents.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Forcing people to fund Planned Parenthood is an extreme position.  It is in no way moderate to take people's money to pay for abortion.

1. The Hyde Amendment.
2. Your money pays for hellfire missiles that have kill innocents.

1: PP still gets my tax dollars.
2: The government should stop doing that too.

[BuckeyeNut]

Was Bill Clinton "safe, legal, and rare" as Governor of Arkansas, or pro-life?

[Famous Mortimer]

The Democrats are already pretty moderate on abortion, at least compared to their insane SJW base.

Most Democratic elected officials acknowledge that abortions are things that should ideally be avoided, they agree that tax payer money shouldn't support non-therapeutic abortion, and many even support bans on non-therapeutic third trimester abortions (which are extremely rare anyway).

Those are perfectly reasonable positions. If they made them known, that is. The problem is the crazy SJW base who think abortions are something to be proud of, who want tax payer funding, and who want it legal up until the moment of birth. These policies will never go into effect, they are simply too crazy. But by taking them, the base is able to shame mainstream Democrats into being quite about their own moderate views.

I'm reminded of the third debate when Donald Trump started talking about "ripping the baby out". Hillary should have just said "I support a ban on late term abortions as long as there is an exception for when the mother's life is in danger" that's her actual position and it's a good position. Instead, she stayed quiet for the sake of the Lena Dunhams of the world.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I'm reminded of the third debate when Donald Trump started talking about "ripping the baby out". Hillary should have just said "I support a ban on late term abortions as long as there is an exception for when the mother's life is in danger" that's her actual position and it's a good position. Instead, she stayed quiet for the sake of the Lena Dunhams of the world.

What would the SJWs have done if she had taken that position?

[The_Doctor]

What if the Republicans moderated on the economy and supported nationalising banks/ industry and wealth confiscation?

They're...uh... somewhat trying this with DJT. Somewhat. I can't really tell, but that was his original inchoate undeveloped general election strategy that never went anywhere.

[Person Man]

What if the Republicans moderated on the economy and supported nationalising banks/ industry and wealth confiscation?

They're...uh... somewhat trying this with DJT. Somewhat. I can't really tell, but that was his original inchoate undeveloped general election strategy that never went anywhere.

If Obama tried to influence private decisions like Trump is, he would have been called a Stalnist.

[bore]

The triumphalist social liberals in this thread invoking Europe as a pro abortion nirvana really need to look at the actual abortion laws in Europe.

Basically it comes up far less as a political issue in large part because the laws are a messy compromise which satisfy neither activist pro choicers or activist pro lifers (although because of when the majority of abortions occur the arrangement obviously favours pro choicers)

usually, afaik, there are restrictions regarding the timeline......but there is no major party in western europe which is able to make a winning topic out of outlawing abortions.

Err...

That's exactly my point.  Abortion as an issue is far less politicised in Europe in large part because the laws are stricter than in America.

[Person Man]

The triumphalist social liberals in this thread invoking Europe as a pro abortion nirvana really need to look at the actual abortion laws in Europe.

Basically it comes up far less as a political issue in large part because the laws are a messy compromise which satisfy neither activist pro choicers or activist pro lifers (although because of when the majority of abortions occur the arrangement obviously favours pro choicers)

usually, afaik, there are restrictions regarding the timeline......but there is no major party in western europe which is able to make a winning topic out of outlawing abortions.

Err...

That's exactly my point.  Abortion as an issue is far less politicised in Europe in large part because the laws are stricter than in America.

They could be considered more pro-voice than pro-chouce?

[ApatheticAustrian]

That's exactly my point.  Abortion as an issue is far less politicised in Europe in large part because the laws are stricter than in America.

i don't think so.

otherwise the states who are able to regulate it wouldn't go waaaaaaay further than that limit.

imho it's more of a religious question.

[bore]

That's exactly my point.  Abortion as an issue is far less politicised in Europe in large part because the laws are stricter than in America.

i don't think so.

otherwise the states who are able to regulate it wouldn't go waaaaaaay further than that limit.

imho it's more of a religious question.

Which states are you referring to here? American? European?

If I understand your position correctly, and I may not because it's not quite clear, your argument is that I'm wrong because Republicans push for far stronger anti abortion legislation than is operative in europe. But this is just my point. The Democratic Party is at this point, at the officeholding level, pretty much universally in favour of unrestricted abortion access. The Republican party is at this point, at the officeholding level, pretty much universally in favour of no access to abortion at all, save for maybe the usual 3 exceptions of rape, incest and life of the mother. The population as a whole are strongly in favour of legal abortion, but also strongly in favour of restrictions based on the stage of the pregnancy. In other words, the legal situation in most of europe. Legal abortion, but not in every case.

If the legal situation in the US, nationwide, was like that of, say, France, then I find it difficult to believe that either Republicans or Democrats would be able to make quite as much hay out of the issue, given that any change, either towards or away from liberalisation, would go against a fairly large majority of the electorate.

As to your repeated vague allusions to religion, I take your point that abortion as an issue in the US is very strongly correlated to religious belief. But then so are things like gun control, and support for raising or lowering income taxes. There is no necessary link between atheism and being pro choice, especially when it comes to late stage pregnancies, where abortion is actually a live political issue. And if you're right, it would raise the question as to why there has been no real push towards further liberalisation in rapidly secularising europe.

[Hermit For Peace]

Is it about 99% guys who are posting on this thread about abortion?

Here's a thought, why don't they spend as much time developing birth control "pills" for guys as they do on birth control for females?

Why not get BOTH parties to take responsibility for preventing conception and make abortion a moot point, except in the case of rape. In that case there should always be the option for abortion, and also if the mother's life is in danger.

Most females want control over their bodies, just like the males do. This should never be a debatable issue.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

In the UK, fwiw, polls consistently show women as more "pro-life" than men.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

How about this as a moderation? Allow all abortions to be funded up to 12-16 weeks at will (and allow public money to be invested in clinics etc), but after that completely ban it aside from to save the mother's life or if the foetus is not viable?

[MT Treasurer]

Yes, but what they also need to do is stop attacking Trump from the right on foreign policy. It is embarrassing, and it will be even more so in 2020, probably.

[Antonio the Sixth]

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Put the limit at 21-22 weeks and that would be my ideal position.

As well as the consensus in most European countries.