James Clapper (DNI): U.S. intel has not verified accusations against Trump

[JJC]

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Remember, this fake story - which originated from anti-Trump oppo research - was all over the front page of Reddit, was trending in the top 10 on Twitter, and got propped up everywhere on social media. Young, impressionable (low info) people have heard about this fake story and will accept it as reality.

Fake News.

[Mr. Morden]

Trump’s “fake news” charge seems to be conflating two separate questions: 1) Is there a dossier alleging that Russia is holding blackmail material over Trump, which also describes what the alleged Trump indiscretions are, for which the intel chiefs provided a summary to Trump and Obama last week?  2) Are the allegations in the dossier true?

What CNN and other news orgs reported a few days ago was #1.  They said that yes, there is such a dossier, which the intel chiefs at least thought was worth sharing a summary with Trump, for whatever reason.  This isn’t fake news.  The statement by Clapper, plus the statement by McCain, plus Trump’s own comments on the matter would seem to confirm that there is such a dossier whose contents were shared with Trump by the intel chiefs.  That hardly seems in dispute at this point.

But what about #2, are the allegations in the dossier true?  Neither CNN nor any of the other MSM outlets said that they were true.  They don’t know if they were true, and they said as much.  Yet Trump lumps it all together, implying that CNN was claiming that they were true, and thus brands CNN “fake news”.

[Beet]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

[Cashew]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

[Beet]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

Right, so anyone who accuses it of being fake has to prove that it is.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

Right, so anyone who accuses it of being fake has to prove that it is.

Great standard. I guess we needed the $2 trillion Iraq war to prove that they didn't have WMD.

[Beet]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

Right, so anyone who accuses it of being fake has to prove that it is.

Great standard. I guess we needed the $2 trillion Iraq war to prove that they didn't have WMD.

Or we could have just realized that possibly having WMD is no justification for a $2 trillion war.

[Cashew]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

Right, so anyone who accuses it of being fake has to prove that it is.

[JJC]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

Right, so anyone who accuses it of being fake has to prove that it is.

[SteveRogers]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

I'd normally agree, except the people now screaming "FAKE NEWS!" spent the last year saying, "Who knows what sinister things could be in Hillary's missing emails. Better lock her up!" Those people should not now be allowed to hand wave this away. In this case I think the burden of proof has to be at least in some small part on the coward who refuses to release his tax returns.

[Cashew]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

I'd normally agree, except the people now screaming "FAKE NEWS!" spent the last year saying, "Who knows what sinister things could be in Hillary's missing emails. Better lock her up!" Those people should not now be allowed to hand wave this away. In this case I think the burden of proof has to be at least in some small part on the coward who refuses to release his tax returns.

I sympathize entirely with what you are saying, the Republicans deserve a reckoning after having demonized president Obama to a comical degree. Don't expect me to join in though.

As for the tax returns, It won't so you much good to press with that, Trump has sadly normalized that kind of behavior.

[Beet]

Conservatives believe what Clapper says now? The dossier is real. The explosive facts about Trump's hotel activities contained within are unverified. That doesn't mean it's necessarily fake. They could very well be real, it could very well be false, but it hasn't been proven either way. So it can't be said to be fake in either case. The author of the memo, however, is not anonymous, has a good reputation, and has provided significant, authentic information in the past.

If there is even a chance it's real, this is a major problem, since our CIC is compromised to a foreign superpower. The best thing to do would be to get it all out now.

Nope, The burden of proof always falls on the accuser.

Right, so anyone who accuses it of being fake has to prove that it is.

So you're fine with there being a 50% chance the president is being blackmailed by Russia?

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

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-It's not anywhere near 50%. Not even 5%.

[Person Man]

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-It's not anywhere near 50%. Not even 5%.

I would say 10-20%. That's a reasonable suspicion.