Rep. John Lewis "I do not consider the president-elect to be legitimate"
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  Rep. John Lewis "I do not consider the president-elect to be legitimate"
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Author Topic: Rep. John Lewis "I do not consider the president-elect to be legitimate"  (Read 3750 times)
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2017, 10:03:04 PM »

Good, good. It begins.
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JGibson
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« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2017, 10:40:49 PM »

Rep. John Lewis is 100% right on.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2017, 10:53:48 PM »


Indeed.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2017, 11:35:16 PM »

What will we be thinking four years from now?
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Bojack Horseman
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« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2017, 12:18:05 AM »

He is not legitimate in any way. He didn't win the popular vote, and he was only elected because the Russians and the FBI teamed up to deal a death-blow to Clinton, not to mention the fact that his election sent the KKK celebrating in the streets.
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JA
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« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2017, 12:22:46 AM »

He is not legitimate in any way. He didn't win the popular vote, and he was only elected because the Russians and the FBI teamed up to deal a death-blow to Clinton, not to mention the fact that his election sent the KKK celebrating in the streets.

In reality, you can't objectively prove that Russia's interference caused Trump to win the election. That the KKK celebrated his victory also doesn't somehow deligitimize his election, despite it being disgusting. And while it's true he lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes, he did win the electoral vote without any substantial indications of vote rigging. In America, whether we like it or not, the electoral college determines our President - not the popular vote.
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Bismarck
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« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2017, 02:04:34 AM »
« Edited: January 14, 2017, 02:06:40 AM by St. Alphonso »


Oh noes! 1 Democrat is doing to Trump what hundreds of prominent Republicans did to Obama! How dare those liberalz!

Exactly. I can't get over how easy it is for Republicans to conveniently overlook all the underhanded things that they did to Obama, and yet, when it comes to Trump....

I'll give John Lewis his freedom of speech. He's speaking from his heart that Trump is not legitimate in his eyes.

I don't approve of republicans who tried to delegitimize Obama either. He can disagree with Trump on policy and say he's a terrible person and vote against him in every issue. Saying the election doesn't count sets a very bad precedent though. I don't recall any republican members of congress saying Obama wasn't a real president, although I acknowledge there were some who fed into things like the birther crap, which is equally bad. The whole "republicans do it too!!!" Argument is bad logic whichever way it goes. Read some Kant. Things not okay in one situation are generally not iokaybin other situations either.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2017, 07:13:02 AM »

The John Lewis of SNCC and the Civil Rights movement was a MASSIVE FF.  MASSIVE!  He put his life and limb on the line for REAL freedom for folks and REAL civil rights that everyone could agree were civil rights.  He persevered in the struggle for black folks to achieve legal equality in fact, even as, in the words of Mike Royko, the worst elements of Southern beer-belly manhood were allowed to provide the response.  He was described as "A Living Saint", and while that's pretty heady stuff, the John Lewis of the Civil Rights Movement years came close to justifying it. 

The John Lewis of the US House of Representatives is another matter.  He's been a backbencher, living off the accolades of his past, who makes speeches on the House floor that are often rambling and incoherent.  This isn't a new development.  I remember watching C-Span in the late 1980s and he was being announced as the next speaker during a debate.  I was a Democrat then, and a pretty partisan one at that, so I was excited at the idea of hearing this "Living Saint" whom I had always read about.  To may dismay, he was rambling, and somewhat incoherent, even then, and he wasn't even 50 years old then.  I remember feeling disappointed, and thinking how many folks in the middle this guy would turn off if he were on their TV everyday.

John Lewis is a guy who, because of his sufferings for the Civil Rights movement, came to believe the hype about himself.  He's come to believe that someone died and left him, if not boss, then the moral arbiter of every cause.  He's hardly been an outstanding Congressman, and if he weren't John Lewis, he'd probably have been primaried a while ago.  I suppose that our House of Representatives needs ONE John Lewis, and we've got him.  If we had 50 John Lewises, we'd have endless drama and even less would get done than does now.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2017, 07:21:09 AM »


Oh noes! 1 Democrat is doing to Trump what hundreds of prominent Republicans did to Obama! How dare those liberalz!

Exactly. I can't get over how easy it is for Republicans to conveniently overlook all the underhanded things that they did to Obama, and yet, when it comes to Trump....

I'll give John Lewis his freedom of speech. He's speaking from his heart that Trump is not legitimate in his eyes.

I don't approve of republicans who tried to delegitimize Obama either. He can disagree with Trump on policy and say he's a terrible person and vote against him in every issue. Saying the election doesn't count sets a very bad precedent though. I don't recall any republican members of congress saying Obama wasn't a real president, although I acknowledge there were some who fed into things like the birther crap, which is equally bad. The whole "republicans do it too!!!" Argument is bad logic whichever way it goes. Read some Kant. Things not okay in one situation are generally not iokaybin other situations either.

I will say that no one ever said "You lie!" to a President in the middle of a SOTU address like Rep. Joe Wilson.  There was no excuse for the lame response to that by Congressional Republicans. 

I will say that Obama was a gracious President, and I appreciated his "No Drama Obama" approach to matters.  Mr. Trump would do well to note this; he has always been well-received when he was being gracious. 
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« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2017, 07:23:45 AM »

Trump certainly does lack the legitimacy steaming from the popular vote win, while still being legally elected per archaic but still existing stystem.



Comparing a number of pieces left with a number of votes casted by actual people is quite hyperbolic.

Trump got much less votes than his opponent. I don't think anybody can dispute this. There's something weird, at best, to call one country's democratic, and yet have a system under which a man with less support becomes President. Trump has no popular mandate.

Of course, as I've been saying in other threads, you don't get to change rules during the game and he's legally President-elect. Doesn't mean we have to approve the system.
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2017, 07:25:49 AM »
« Edited: January 14, 2017, 07:33:10 AM by Phony Moderate »

He is not legitimate in any way. He didn't win the popular vote, and he was only elected because the Russians and the FBI teamed up to deal a death-blow to Clinton, not to mention the fact that his election sent the KKK celebrating in the streets.

In reality, you can't objectively prove that Russia's interference caused Trump to win the election. That the KKK celebrated his victory also doesn't somehow deligitimize his election, despite it being disgusting. And while it's true he lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes, he did win the electoral vote without any substantial indications of vote rigging. In America, whether we like it or not, the electoral college determines our President - not the popular vote.

Yeah, I mean the popular vote issue wouldn't get the attention it's getting at the moment if a more benign Republican had won.

I note that Hillary (a more authoritative voice on the matter than anyone on an obscure political forum since she, you know, is the one who suffered this fate) hasn't, as far as I'm aware, raised the issue since the election.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2017, 07:32:29 AM »

Trump certainly does lack the legitimacy steaming from the popular vote win, while still being legally elected per archaic but still existing stystem.



Comparing a number of pieces left with a number of votes casted by actual people is quite hyperbolic.

Trump got much less votes than his opponent. I don't think anybody can dispute this. There's something weird, at best, to call one country's democratic, and yet have a system under which a man with less support becomes President. Trump has no popular mandate.

Of course, as I've been saying in other threads, you don't get to change rules during the game and he's legally President-elect. Doesn't mean we have to approve the system.

We are not a "democracy".  We are a "republic".   A republic with democratic features, to be sure, but a republic where the people rule through elected representatives.

As an aside, the worst of "democracy" in America are the irresponsible ballot initiatives that voters approve, often without understanding what's in them, and which often require legislative supermajorities to fix.  Our Founders were not unwise in looking askance at too much "democracy".
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2017, 09:35:08 AM »

Maybe I am missing something here. I am all for Democrats openly resisting denouncing Trump's presidency, but the ceaseless focus on calling him "illegitimate" is just inane.

It's like the "not my president" BS. Yes he is your president (or will be in a few days), just as Putin would be your president if you were Russian. Refusing to acknowledge the fact means you won't be able to fight him as effectively.
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Frodo
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« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2017, 10:15:25 AM »

He's not wrong. 
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Figueira
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« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2017, 10:44:56 AM »


We are not a "democracy".  We are a "republic".   

Hahahahaha
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« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2017, 10:50:41 AM »


I honestly wonder what would our blue avatars be saying had Trump won the popular vote, but lost electoral one to Hillary.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2017, 10:57:21 AM »


I honestly wonder what would our blue avatars be saying had Trump won the popular vote, but lost electoral one to Hillary.

Something something something voter fraud.
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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
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« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2017, 11:22:44 AM »



Maybe I am missing something here. I am all for Democrats openly resisting denouncing Trump's presidency, but the ceaseless focus on calling him "illegitimate" is just inane.
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Hermit For Peace
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« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2017, 11:32:21 AM »


I honestly wonder what would our blue avatars be saying had Trump won the popular vote, but lost electoral one to Hillary.

Something something something voter fraud.

The election was rigged! Trump even said that would be the case if he didn't win.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2017, 02:30:29 PM »

Is he suggesting that Trump's parent were unmarried when he was born?
Assuming universal heredity, the Presidency now passes to Maryanne I of the House of Trump or Donald II of the House of Trump(disputed).

André Heinz and Christopher Heinz are fifth cousins-once removed from Trump's children, and John Kerry's step-children. Should Trump's line be forced to decline the Presidency, the Heinz brothers could feasibly claim distant kinship and declare the Presidency rightfully theirs.

/hereditary Presidency
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JJC
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« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2017, 03:15:06 PM »
« Edited: January 14, 2017, 03:19:38 PM by JJC »

Trump certainly does lack the legitimacy steaming from the popular vote win, while still being legally elected per archaic but still existing stystem.



Comparing a number of pieces left with a number of votes casted by actual people is quite hyperbolic.

Trump got much less votes than his opponent. I don't think anybody can dispute this. There's something weird, at best, to call one country's democratic, and yet have a system under which a man with less support becomes President. Trump has no popular mandate.

Of course, as I've been saying in other threads, you don't get to change rules during the game and he's legally President-elect. Doesn't mean we have to approve the system.

It is important to understand that our country is not a democracy. It is a Republic -  the founders wisely understood that democracy alone is mob rule. (Many would argue that democracy is not even a form of government - it is more a temporary transition into another form of government - usually an oligarchy or totalitarian form.)

The United States is exactly as it is named - a collection of states that are vaguely unified for a common purpose. But every state has it's own laws, rules, edict, and culture - and they all have their own separate interests as well. What is good for Idaho is different than what is good for New York, which is different than what is good for Texas.

It is for this reason that the electoral college exists - so that smaller population states don't get swamped by larger states without any real representation or power to prevent harmful laws to their states from being enacted. Essentially, the founders wanted to prevent the rise of concentrated, centralized power that is not representative of the rest of the nation.

The point is that our system of government makes it EXCEPTIONALLY hard to pass any wide-sweeping, dramatic change in our laws unless it has near unanimous support by ALL states in the country. This is a positive, not a negative - and is probably why our country has been so successful and survived so many historic events that would have toppled other governments.

CA and NY - certainly not representative of the nation as a whole - should not determine our nation's policy alone any more than Texas should. We are a collection of disparate states and all have a voice in this agreed upon union.
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hopper
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« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2017, 03:26:13 PM »

He is not legitimate in any way. He didn't win the popular vote, and he was only elected because the Russians and the FBI teamed up to deal a death-blow to Clinton, not to mention the fact that his election sent the KKK celebrating in the streets.
Isn't it Hillary's fault that she didn't campaign at all in Wisconsin and maybe made 2 campaign appearances in Michigan if at all in the "General Campaign Season"? 

As for "The Comey Letter" even filmmaker Michael Moore said that wasn't the only reason that Hillary lost.

As for the KKK celebrating in the streets Trump can't control that.

We have an electoral college its not like the Democrats didn't know that hours before the election took place.
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Xing
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« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2017, 03:26:49 PM »

Trump is legitimately the President-elect, but that doesn't mean anyone has to approve of him.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2017, 03:38:45 PM »

Trump is legitimately the President-elect, but that doesn't mean anyone has to approve of him.

     Which I understand and respect. Rep. Lewis's comment sounds more like a birther, insisting he is illegitimate and holding to that view for no other reason than that he disapproves of him.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2017, 06:42:50 PM »

Maybe I am missing something here. I am all for Democrats openly resisting denouncing Trump's presidency, but the ceaseless focus on calling him "illegitimate" is just inane.

It's like the "not my president" BS. Yes he is your president (or will be in a few days), just as Putin would be your president if you were Russian. Refusing to acknowledge the fact means you won't be able to fight him as effectively.

Given the way the Trump and his future administration have signaled their intention to bend over for him, one could argue that Putin effectively will be our president.
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