55% say Russia interfered with election through hacking
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  55% say Russia interfered with election through hacking
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Author Topic: 55% say Russia interfered with election through hacking  (Read 758 times)
Beet
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« on: January 14, 2017, 04:30:25 PM »

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http://www.pollingreport.com/russia.htm

Most Americans never wanted him elected. Now he continues to defy the will of the majority of Americans to help Putin. When are Americans going to get a government that looks after America?
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KingSweden
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 06:56:26 PM »

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http://www.pollingreport.com/russia.htm

Most Americans never wanted him elected. Now he continues to defy the will of the majority of Americans to help Putin. When are Americans going to get a government that looks after America?

Pence is hardly my first choice, but when he's inaugurated I don't see him being a Russian toady
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Eharding
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 07:29:32 PM »

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http://www.pollingreport.com/russia.htm

Most Americans never wanted him elected. Now he continues to defy the will of the majority of Americans to help Putin. When are Americans going to get a government that looks after America?

-On January 20, hopefully. Build the Wall! Muslim Ban Now!
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2017, 09:35:48 PM »

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Intelligently defend a Muslim ban. I'm just curious, for entertainment's sake.
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Eharding
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 10:27:30 PM »

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Intelligently defend a Muslim ban. I'm just curious, for entertainment's sake.

-There are very few Muslims in the United States, and yet, they commit a surprisingly large number and portion of terrorist attacks in the US. The vast majority of Muslims in the world have no ability to enter the United States. A Muslim ban would reduce the number of Muslims in the United States relative to counterfactual. Consequently, a Muslim ban would reduce the number of terrorist attacks in the U.S. without affecting the lives all that many Muslims (there are maybe a couple million in the U.S.; over a billion in the entire world).

Anything more I should add?
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 11:37:40 PM »

Let's deconstruct this.

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Compare the number of gun deaths and deaths by terrorist attacks from foreign outsiders in the United States. I think you'll find gun related deaths end up being much larger than if we added San Bernandino, the Orlando gay bar attack, and 9/11.

This suggests very much that we are psychologically terrified of Muslims but in proportion to their ability to actually cause harm, it's quite low.

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So? But there's already terrorist attacks. Maybe the answer is to deport all Muslim citizens from the United States?

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Sure. Maybe. I mean, again, deaths by single lone wolf attacks are radically, vastly, outnumbered by gun deaths, car accidents, plane crashes, deer crashes, whatever.

Here's the problem with the Muslim ban.

1. Enforcement. How are you going to enforce it? If you say geographic ban, are you going to create an exception for Christians from Syrians? What if Muslims convert to Christianity? Are you going to pick and choose who's a Muslim and who's a Christian?

2. Radicalization of Islam. What message are you sending to "swing" Muslims who are not interested in supporting radical Islamist terrorists by banning them from America? The simple message that we indiscriminately don't distinguish them from actual terrorists. The Syrian mother fleeing war torn Aleppo cannot be lumped in with radical Islamic fighters in Baghdad. Yet, by forcing that mother to recognize that we view her as scary and as much an enemy as the terrorists we kill by drone strike, we just exacerbate our problems.

We cannot take out a 1.6 billion strong religion, no matter how hard we try. Not without nuclear weapons, a lot of dead bodies, and a lot of moral guilt afterwards. Now, if you're cool with that, that's certainly an option.

But winning the war on radical Islam requires us to have Muslim allies. Yes, we need to be able to isolate the terrorists from their more moderate brothers and sisters. Creating Fortress America and Europe doesn't solve the problems (for instance, they'll just start taking over more and more territory in the Middle East, becoming a bigger problem, especially if they get nuclear weapons and chemical weapons). Consequentially, a ban is a stupid idea because it alienates likely allies who would want to embrace Western culture and civilization.

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Eharding
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2017, 01:11:19 AM »

Let's deconstruct this.

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Compare the number of gun deaths and deaths by terrorist attacks from foreign outsiders in the United States. I think you'll find gun related deaths end up being much larger than if we added San Bernandino, the Orlando gay bar attack, and 9/11.

This suggests very much that we are psychologically terrified of Muslims but in proportion to their ability to actually cause harm, it's quite low.

-So? Still a pretty big issue. If a Muslim is 10x more prone to terrorism than an average immigrant, that's a pretty good argument for banning them.

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So? But there's already terrorist attacks. Maybe the answer is to deport all Muslim citizens from the United States?[/quote]

-You know that would violate the First Amendment.

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Sure. Maybe. I mean, again, deaths by single lone wolf attacks are radically, vastly, outnumbered by gun deaths, car accidents, plane crashes, deer crashes, whatever.[/quote]

-I'm not going to fall for distractions.

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-Hardly any Muslim converts to Christianity in the Middle East. Sure, we're going to pick and choose. Sure, create an exception for Christians.

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-And yet, Dearborn's 2016 vote was pretty much identical to its 2012 vote. Italy didn't become an enemy because of the 1924 immigration act. China didn't become an enemy because of the Chinese Exclusion Act. For the most part "Muslim allies" (outside the YPG) are untrustworthy. There are no good reasons to trust the people that helped create ISIS to destroy it.

Too many Muslim terrorists (e.g., the Orlando shooter) have been born in the U.S. A temporary shutdown is good; a generation-long one is better.
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2017, 05:59:20 AM »

So two thirds of republicans don't believe that the russians hacked the DNC? That is truly distrubing. The level of misinformation these people must be exposed to...
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EnglishPete
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2017, 07:02:47 AM »

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hopper
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2017, 10:04:13 PM »

Some Democrats act like Russia hacked Voting Machines.
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