Should the US break off diplomatic relations with Russia?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 12:58:42 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Should the US break off diplomatic relations with Russia?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3
Poll
Question: Should the US break off diplomatic relations with Russia?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 56

Author Topic: Should the US break off diplomatic relations with Russia?  (Read 1360 times)
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2017, 05:02:34 PM »

Crimea used to be Russian territory before it was transferred to Ukraine by order of Nikita Khrushchev.

The population of Eastern Ukraine is majority Russian. Are you suggesting Russia should abandon them? After all, the government in Ukraine is fiercely anti-Russian. Russia didn't touch Ukraine while pro-Russian governments were in power there.

South Ossetia is ethnic Russian territory as well.

That's not the point.

The whole concept of peace and stability in Europe following WWII is based on respecting existing borders.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2017, 05:04:25 PM »

Yes, if we start recognising it as precedent that countries can lobby for bits of other countries to call votes to be cleaved to the motherland, it essentially destroys the whole purpose of nation-States. Not to mention the chaos that would ensure across the developing world...
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2017, 05:07:44 PM »

Yes, if we start recognising it as precedent that countries can lobby for bits of other countries to call votes to be cleaved to the motherland, it essentially destroys the whole purpose of nation-States. Not to mention the chaos that would ensure across the developing world...

Unless you'll have a working agreement between influential countries to break off relations simultaniously, it won't work. There are much more effective ways to punish Putin. Breaking off relations would only make him more popular in Russia.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2017, 05:13:37 PM »

The other thing is that if Putin falls, I assume his successor would be even more reactionary and nationalistic. (And this isn't even taking into account the potential ISIS that Chechnya would become.)
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2017, 05:22:17 PM »

Um yes Russia should abandon the eastern Ukraine seperatists as they are F[INKS]ING SAVAGES, those vile terrorists SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER, bomb them into annihilation. Also I've read about the oppression they are doing of underground Protestant churches. Those disgusting sick f[inks]s are no better than ISIS in my view. Ukraine should annihilate them and reclaim its rightful territory.

And Ukraine in no way oppresses ethnic Russians.
Logged
Ljube
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,999
Political Matrix
E: 2.71, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2017, 05:26:42 PM »

Crimea used to be Russian territory before it was transferred to Ukraine by order of Nikita Khrushchev.

The population of Eastern Ukraine is majority Russian. Are you suggesting Russia should abandon them? After all, the government in Ukraine is fiercely anti-Russian. Russia didn't touch Ukraine while pro-Russian governments were in power there.

South Ossetia is ethnic Russian territory as well.

That's not the point.

The whole concept of peace and stability in Europe following WWII is based on respecting existing borders.


So, you are suggesting Russia should abandon the ethnic Russian population in bordering countries?

Perhaps a better solution would be to respect Russia and avoid provocations that could push Russia over the edge? Like, don't install anti-Russian governments in neighboring countries.

After all, Russian aggression is a desperate act of self-defense bordering on self-preservation. To realize that, all you need to do is look at the situation and developments from Russian perspective.
Logged
SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,463
United States
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2017, 05:27:53 PM »

No.
Logged
Vosem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,625
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2017, 05:28:50 PM »

This would be counterproductive in the extreme. No.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,251


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2017, 05:42:58 PM »

Um yes Russia should abandon the eastern Ukraine seperatists as they are F[INKS]ING SAVAGES, those vile terrorists SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER, bomb them into annihilation. Also I've read about the oppression they are doing of underground Protestant churches. Those disgusting sick f[inks]s are no better than ISIS in my view. Ukraine should annihilate them and reclaim its rightful territory.

And Ukraine in no way oppresses ethnic Russians.

Wars of annihilation against the savages: All Liberal, All The Time!
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2017, 05:56:43 PM »

Um yes Russia should abandon the eastern Ukraine seperatists as they are F[INKS]ING SAVAGES, those vile terrorists SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER, bomb them into annihilation. Also I've read about the oppression they are doing of underground Protestant churches. Those disgusting sick f[inks]s are no better than ISIS in my view. Ukraine should annihilate them and reclaim its rightful territory.

And Ukraine in no way oppresses ethnic Russians.

Wars of annihilation against the savages: All Liberal, All The Time!

Bernie Sanders' website called for the destruction of ISIS.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,251


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2017, 06:19:05 PM »

Um yes Russia should abandon the eastern Ukraine seperatists as they are F[INKS]ING SAVAGES, those vile terrorists SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER, bomb them into annihilation. Also I've read about the oppression they are doing of underground Protestant churches. Those disgusting sick f[inks]s are no better than ISIS in my view. Ukraine should annihilate them and reclaim its rightful territory.

And Ukraine in no way oppresses ethnic Russians.

Wars of annihilation against the savages: All Liberal, All The Time!

Bernie Sanders' website called for the destruction of ISIS.

Did it use language like "bomb them into annihilation"?
Logged
(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31
Eharding
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,934


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2017, 06:43:54 PM »

Um yes Russia should abandon the eastern Ukraine seperatists as they are F[INKS]ING SAVAGES, those vile terrorists SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER, bomb them into annihilation. Also I've read about the oppression they are doing of underground Protestant churches. Those disgusting sick f[inks]s are no better than ISIS in my view. Ukraine should annihilate them and reclaim its rightful territory.

And Ukraine in no way oppresses ethnic Russians.

-You really are something out of a parody.
Logged
ag
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,828


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2017, 06:49:27 PM »

Somebody said here something about "South Ossetia being an ´ethnic Russian territory´". Amused.
Logged
ag
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,828


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2017, 06:55:21 PM »

Um yes Russia should abandon the eastern Ukraine seperatists as they are F[INKS]ING SAVAGES, those vile terrorists SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER, bomb them into annihilation. Also I've read about the oppression they are doing of underground Protestant churches. Those disgusting sick f[inks]s are no better than ISIS in my view. Ukraine should annihilate them and reclaim its rightful territory.

And Ukraine in no way oppresses ethnic Russians.

-You really are something out of a parody.

Well, you are far beyond the parody. People like you gave us WWII. You are hell-bent on destroying us all in WWIII.

There is a special place for those like you in Hell. I am sure you will have an eternity to think about it.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2017, 08:18:34 PM »

Um yes Russia should abandon the eastern Ukraine seperatists as they are F[INKS]ING SAVAGES, those vile terrorists SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER, bomb them into annihilation. Also I've read about the oppression they are doing of underground Protestant churches. Those disgusting sick f[inks]s are no better than ISIS in my view. Ukraine should annihilate them and reclaim its rightful territory.

And Ukraine in no way oppresses ethnic Russians.

Wars of annihilation against the savages: All Liberal, All The Time!

Bernie Sanders' website called for the destruction of ISIS.

Did it use language like "bomb them into annihilation"?

It's just semantics.

This by the way is something that's not getting enough attention.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,251


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2017, 09:03:04 PM »

Um yes Russia should abandon the eastern Ukraine seperatists as they are F[INKS]ING SAVAGES, those vile terrorists SHOT DOWN A CIVILIAN AIRLINER, bomb them into annihilation. Also I've read about the oppression they are doing of underground Protestant churches. Those disgusting sick f[inks]s are no better than ISIS in my view. Ukraine should annihilate them and reclaim its rightful territory.

And Ukraine in no way oppresses ethnic Russians.

Wars of annihilation against the savages: All Liberal, All The Time!

Bernie Sanders' website called for the destruction of ISIS.

Did it use language like "bomb them into annihilation"?

It's just semantics.

It isn't really. Language has consequences. Phrases like "bomb them into annihilation" have some very particular and very nasty historical resonances.
Logged
Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,504
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2017, 10:10:50 PM »

And what would this accomplish exactly?

What did breaking off relations with Iran accomplish?

Nothing? The regime is still there and it took decades for the U.S. to understand it's not going anyway so they might just as well try to mend tensions.
Russia, like Iran, has many legitimate grievances with the US.  They don't justify Russia's behavior.  But Bush 41 promised Gorbachev we would not expand NATO as we have done.  If the Cold War ended less favorably to us, how would Americans feel if the still-intact USSR attempted to integrate Greece, Finland, Austria, and Italy into the Warsaw Pact?

Economic sanctions, breaking off relations, are acts of war.  It is not in our interest to do this to Russia.  Period.
Logged
Meclazine for Israel
Meclazine
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,661
Australia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2017, 10:27:13 PM »

No.

I think people will be pleasantly surprised with Trumps' ability to engage effectively with Russia.

Donald has his foot halfway in the door to a good relationship.

If Trump and Putin can go hunting on horseback together topless in the Urals, then things will be much stronger between the two countries.

Why miss that opportunity?
Logged
Deblano
EdgarAllenYOLO
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,680
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2017, 10:28:04 PM »

And what would this accomplish exactly?

What did breaking off relations with Iran accomplish?

Nothing? The regime is still there and it took decades for the U.S. to understand it's not going anyway so they might just as well try to mend tensions.
Russia, like Iran, has many legitimate grievances with the US.  They don't justify Russia's behavior.  But Bush 41 promised Gorbachev we would not expand NATO as we have done.  If the Cold War ended less favorably to us, how would Americans feel if the still-intact USSR attempted to integrate Greece, Finland, Austria, and Italy into the Warsaw Pact?

Economic sanctions, breaking off relations, are acts of war.  It is not in our interest to do this to Russia.  Period.
Logged
Goldwater
Republitarian
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,064
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.55, S: -4.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2017, 11:19:04 PM »

Are you insane? It's not like diplomacy is only for countries we like, if anything it's the opposite.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,714
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2017, 11:20:08 PM »

Are you insane? It's not like diplomacy is only for countries we like, if anything it's the opposite.

Then why don't we have relations with Iran or North Korea?
Logged
Goldwater
Republitarian
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,064
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.55, S: -4.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2017, 11:23:19 PM »

Are you insane? It's not like diplomacy is only for countries we like, if anything it's the opposite.

Then why don't we have relations with Iran or North Korea?

Let me rephrase that: If anything, it should be opposite. Unless you think we shouldn't even attempt negotiations with countries we don't like?
Logged
Crumpets
Thinking Crumpets Crumpet
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,586
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.06, S: -6.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2017, 11:51:38 PM »

Diplomatic relations also serves the purpose of making more educated policy decisions, especially with countries which aren't our allies. If an American goes missing in Russia, or if we get a weird blip on the radar, it's to our benefit if we can just pick up the phone and talk to someone with authority in Russia, even if we don't trust every word they say. Can you imagine how the Cuban Missile Crisis would have played out if we had needed to call Switzerland to call the USSR to negotiate the terms of withdrawing their nukes from Cuba?
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,157
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2017, 01:13:26 AM »

No. Diplomacy should not be a pawn of politicians looking for scapegoats for their failures. Bad precedent.

The democratic party is officially insane. They've secluded and deluded themselves about the world so thoroughly that they've lost touch with reality.

You are officially insane, deluded, and out of touch with reality if you think BRTD is representative of the Democratic Party.
Logged
(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31
Eharding
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,934


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2017, 01:36:13 AM »

No. Diplomacy should not be a pawn of politicians looking for scapegoats for their failures. Bad precedent.

The democratic party is officially insane. They've secluded and deluded themselves about the world so thoroughly that they've lost touch with reality.

You are officially insane, deluded, and out of touch with reality if you think BRTD is representative of the Democratic Party.

-Nope. On the contrary, most Dems believe Russia hacked the vote tallies.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.058 seconds with 13 queries.