Opinion of Deng Xiaoping

[TDAS04]

He modernized China, set in place policies that lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, but he was still the butcher who ordered the massacre at Tiananmen.  HP.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

"Modernized" and "HP" are not mutually exclusive.

[jaichind]

FF.  Personal hero of my for his post-1974 actions.

[Bigby]

Part of the reason why the United States is economically barren now.

[Antonio the Sixth]

HP (normal, not incline to excusing dictators because "muh free marketz")

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

HP, traitor.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

HP (normal, not incline to excusing dictators because "muh free marketz")

Initiated the current regime of Chinese governance that takes some of the good parts of living under capitalism, but also the worst parts of living under capitalism working in synergy with the worst parts of living under Communism. HP.

[Derpist]

HP (normal, not incline to excusing dictators because "muh free marketz")

Initiated the current regime of Chinese governance that takes some of the good parts of living under capitalism, but also the worst parts of living under capitalism working in synergy with the worst parts of living under Communism. HP.

[Intell]

HP (normal, not incline to excusing dictators because "muh free marketz")

Initiated the current regime of Chinese governance that takes some of the good parts of living under capitalism, but also the worst parts of living under capitalism working in synergy with the worst parts of living under Communism. HP.

Both of these statements are too overly simplistic, especially if you look at China, from a third-world perspective.

[Derpist]

HP (normal, not incline to excusing dictators because "muh free marketz")

Initiated the current regime of Chinese governance that takes some of the good parts of living under capitalism, but also the worst parts of living under capitalism working in synergy with the worst parts of living under Communism. HP.

Both of these statements are too overly simplistic, especially if you look at China, from a third-world perspective.

Peasant apartheid, the dismantling of the social welfare state, environmental degradation, and mass land theft in order to make the Ultra Rich Asian Girls of Vancouver even richer is pretty indefensible.

[peterthlee]

FF. Though he was somewhat involved in the June 4th crackdown, when students were arrested or even killed, he reshaped China from a rural illiterate nation into the second-most economic superpower in the world.

[Intell]

HP (normal, not incline to excusing dictators because "muh free marketz")

Initiated the current regime of Chinese governance that takes some of the good parts of living under capitalism, but also the worst parts of living under capitalism working in synergy with the worst parts of living under Communism. HP.

Both of these statements are too overly simplistic, especially if you look at China, from a third-world perspective.

Peasant apartheid, the dismantling of the social welfare state, environmental degradation, and mass land theft in order to make the Ultra Rich Asian Girls of Vancouver even richer is pretty indefensible.

All of these weren't (mostly) the fault of Xiaoping, but his successors.

[Derpist]

All of these weren't (mostly) the fault of Xiaoping, but his successors.

You're right that he didn't directly implement many of those things and that things didn't really begin to fall apart until the late 90's. But he pretty much enabled all of this by crushing a popular broad-based coalition, suppressing both workers and students in 1989, and by permanently putting into power an incredibly amoral, parasitic, neoliberal elite whose sole modus operandi is to suck wealth out of China until it is eternally dead and the average rent in California is $9001 a month.

[Intell]

All of these weren't (mostly) the fault of Xiaoping, but his successors.

You're right that he didn't directly implement many of those things and that things didn't really begin to fall apart until the late 90's. But he pretty much enabled all of this by crushing a popular broad-based coalition, suppressing both workers and students in 1989, and by permanently putting into power an incredibly amoral, parasitic, neoliberal elite whose sole modus operandi is to suck wealth out of China until it is eternally dead and the average rent in California is $9001 a month.

I condemn his crushing of Tiannamen Square, though I do not believe that such a vision that you entailed, was not the vision that Xiaoping had.

My thoughts on Mao vs Deng.

Since, I hate Maoism, than any other communist ideology (Hoxhaism, stalinist worshipers and anti-revisionism aside), Deng, though Mao did some good, but his reign was largely bad, and idiotic, and his polciies could have been a lot less murderous, if he listened to other people, and caused a greater and more humane, and more productive way of social development in China.

Without Mao, China would not have made social development of now, without Deng, China would not have the economic development of now. On the absence of social equality, the absolute lack of labour rights, the lack of a meaningful sense of socialism and help towards the poor of China, that was largely the fault not of Deng but of his successors. He invested in social services, with labour rights and government still in many aspects had control of production in certain sectors, without private sector influence, while allowing for a socialist system with markets.

Jiang Zemin, was a lot to blame though, and is god awful, and causes the social inequalities, environmental degreation, lack of worker's rights, and an absence of policies for economic equality/justice, and in extension socialism, and the transition into economic growth and business above all else mentality.

Deng was FF, Mao did some good, China would not be as socially/economic developed and as it's now, but ultimately he's HP.

[Santander]

This should not be a question. HP.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

FF. Though he was somewhat involved in the June 4th crackdown, when students were arrested or even killed, he reshaped China from a rural illiterate nation into the second-most economic superpower in the world.