World's eight richest people have same wealth as poorest 50%
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  World's eight richest people have same wealth as poorest 50%
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Author Topic: World's eight richest people have same wealth as poorest 50%  (Read 2508 times)
dead0man
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« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2017, 10:31:17 AM »

Uh... am I missing something in this thread? Most of the poorest 50% of the planet are not living in first world capitalist countries, but in fake socialist economies where corruption and nepotism rule the roost. In which Western capitalist country does the average person have $118 worth of savings? Maybe we should blame the idiotic politicians in most of these countries, instead of rich people?

Also, you do realize that most of the people grouped in that top 50% have little education, because they drop out of school to work on a subsistence farm, and so have no opportunity to obtain a job they would be able to accumulate savings?

Excellent post.
Indeed.  It's interesting that in a message board full of lefties, Intell is the only person arguing against these points.
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Cassius
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« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2017, 12:09:03 PM »

Yeah, well, there's nothing that can be done about that short of implementing very aggressive measures to redistribute wealth and bring more of the economy under state control, and those measures are... not palatable, to enough westerners to be democratically feasible. So nothing can be done about this until either the wheels on the cart fall off completely or some social/technological change renders our society and the economy as we know it obsolete... the latter of which would probably lead to the former anyway.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2017, 02:01:17 PM »

Poorer countries suffer from a lack of property rights, protectionism, corruption, and bad leadership. While numbers like this are eye popping, it's also worth noting much of the US falls in the global 5% for wealth.

We know what works: Investment, free trade, building infrastructure, moving past resource extraction, investing in education initiatives, and cutting down on communicable diseases. Slowly, we're seeing a lot of progress.
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2017, 02:19:17 PM »

Thanx Obama.
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RI
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« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2017, 03:14:16 PM »

So, uh, what is the "proper" ratio here? It's hard to make any real conclusions without one.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2017, 04:52:18 PM »
« Edited: January 17, 2017, 05:07:57 PM by parochial_boy »

Poorer countries suffer from a lack of property rights, protectionism, corruption, and bad leadership. While numbers like this are eye popping, it's also worth noting much of the US falls in the global 5% for wealth.

We know what works: Investment, free trade, building infrastructure, moving past resource extraction, investing in education initiatives, and cutting down on communicable diseases. Slowly, we're seeing a lot of progress.

Yeah, this. When you are talking about genuine low income countries, quibbling about socialism or capitalism isnt really relevant.

What they need is things like institutioal strength and the rule of law, before you start worrying about whether or not they should have a state run electric grid or not.

Athough having said that, by 50% of the World's population, you are in countries that are pretty middle income, and the fact that many people only have the same level of wealth as 8 people does speak to a certain failure of capitalism in the way that it creates extremes of wealth.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2017, 06:49:12 PM »

So, uh, what is the "proper" ratio here? It's hard to make any real conclusions without one.

I'd say no one person should have more than 10 times as much as another, as an absolute maximum. Of course I assume others will draw the line at different points, but no one in their right mind would find THAT acceptable.
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Computer89
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« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2017, 09:01:24 PM »

People who make 30000 would be in the world top one percent . You can't use global inequality as it is totally misleading
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Computer89
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« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2017, 09:02:14 PM »

Capitalism is right!
Capitalism is moral!
Capitalism is just!

Lol the communist countries and socialist countries are usually the poor ones
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Intell
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« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2017, 11:10:44 PM »

Capitalism is right!
Capitalism is moral!
Capitalism is just!

Lol the communist countries and socialist countries are usually the poor ones

One there really isn't any "communist and socialist countries anymore (bar some South American, and some african exceptions with socialist orientated governments)". In many cases, former communist and socialist countries (or led by socialists and communists), caused a rise of living standards for the poor and working class than their capitalist counterparts.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2017, 04:56:22 PM »

Normally I would argue that it takes wealthy people to invest to create a middle class with jobs and prosperity, but that number is off the chart.

Here is an interesting article on how to deal with wealth disparity, unemployment etc.

Why a universal basic income is a poor substitute for a guaranteed job.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-19/universal-basic-income-vs-job-guarantee/8187688

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shua
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« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2017, 07:15:41 PM »

Poorer countries suffer from a lack of property rights, protectionism, corruption, and bad leadership. While numbers like this are eye popping, it's also worth noting much of the US falls in the global 5% for wealth.

We know what works: Investment, free trade, building infrastructure, moving past resource extraction, investing in education initiatives, and cutting down on communicable diseases. Slowly, we're seeing a lot of progress.

Which is relevant for headlines like this. How is "wealth" counted?  In wealthy liberal democracies, if you have a house and a farm, that is counted as a financial asset, and can be used as collateral for getting a loan. That's not necessarily the case elsewhere.
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IceAgeComing
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« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2017, 07:44:32 PM »

Normally I would argue that it takes wealthy people to invest to create a middle class with jobs and prosperity, but that number is off the chart.

Here is an interesting article on how to deal with wealth disparity, unemployment etc.

Why a universal basic income is a poor substitute for a guaranteed job.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-19/universal-basic-income-vs-job-guarantee/8187688



You seem to be arguing for a job guarantee programme and making the public sector an employer of last resort, which sounds pretty socialist to me!  I mean I'd support it but its impractical, especially as we move towards a world when unemployment will only rise and there's only room for so many middle class jobs...
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CrabCake
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« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2017, 08:08:49 PM »

Global wealth tax, now.

"B- b- b- but much nations! My countries elite have my best interest at heart!!"
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2017, 08:10:35 PM »

IceAge,

I would not argue for either end of the spectrum.

They both seem unrealistic.

Just we have the capitalist extreme in place.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2017, 08:11:47 PM »

Poverty is a huge problem and we should work to alleviate it as much as possible. In terms of wealth disparity however, who cares? Bill Gates being a billionaire doesn't affect the living standards of other people. If the government came and took Gate's fortune it would hurt that bottom 50%, a group that Gates invests billions in helping every year.

1810 people in this world have 6.5 trillion dollars between them. That's more to the point than some ageing monopolist who has grown a conscience.
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Higgs
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« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2017, 08:40:37 PM »

So, uh, what is the "proper" ratio here? It's hard to make any real conclusions without one.

I'd say no one person should have more than 10 times as much as another, as an absolute maximum. Of course I assume others will draw the line at different points, but no one in their right mind would find THAT acceptable.

What's wrong with someone being 10 times richer than another?
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Green Line
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« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2017, 08:41:24 PM »

Everyone needs to make more, not less.  I'm not a jealous type.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2017, 07:08:13 AM »


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Why should they have to pay a global tax? What service did a global government provide them? At least you can say that the state and national government enforced contracts and provides military and police protection, as well as education, but under what logical basis should they pay a global tax? Confiscation?

I reckon that, with globalisation, the nation state is becoming obsolete as a concept - you can't really manage your economy within the confines of one state any more; so you need a global level of enforcement.

That is, at the very least, global standards on tax, business regulation, rule of law etc. Anyone who doesnt want to sign up (let's say the British Virgin Islands) can basically be blacklisted and banned from undertaking any financial transactions with the rest of the world.

Otherwise, you have a situation where businesses are free to travel the world, while governments are confined to the boundaries of their nation state; and that leaves an obvious imbalance of power.
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Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2017, 07:41:53 AM »


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Why should they have to pay a global tax? What service did a global government provide them? At least you can say that the state and national government enforced contracts and provides military and police protection, as well as education, but under what logical basis should they pay a global tax? Confiscation?

I reckon that, with globalisation, the nation state is becoming obsolete as a concept

Only, I would argue, when things are going smoothly. When things are sh**t, then it can be something that people can cling to for hope.
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shua
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« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2017, 02:08:04 PM »
« Edited: January 19, 2017, 02:11:24 PM by shua »

Of Course, but the third-world has been the "third world" because of exploitation from foreign countries, and support for such exploitation by the aristocratic/capitalistic elite of such a country. To fix such a situation one needs to critique the nature of capitalism (not only reform it), get power away from the burgoise and the elite (get rid of the anti-social natures of capitalism), and reform the country, to have a socialist aspect with still some sense of capitalism and markets under strong social(ist) provisions, equality in terms of economic and social power between it's citizens, a strung public sector to help it's citizens, coming with with regulated private business, that still allows for the development of small business, but does not alow the capitalistic and economic elite to reign free.
Ok, I'm really sorry to re-hash that, but this is a simplification. Was there colonial exploitation? Yes, of course. But what was the main form of wealth in the countries of Asia and Africa back then? Spices and precious metals. The main harm the Europeans did was to confiscate a lot of the wealth storage of the countries they conquered.

But I would argue that industrialization is the main advancement of society since 1800.

You're making some great points in this thread, but you're fundamentally wrong about colonialism. Vast disruptions in populations, agriculture, trade networks, social and political structures, etc. in the various regions in order to remake these regions according to the economic, political and ideological designs of various actors in colonial projects. It's hard to know where to begin. Maybe the transportation of crops, animals, and (often forcibly) of people, across continents and oceans?
That does not mean at all that the blame for world poverty in anything remotely like a general sense can be put at the foot of colonialism, but it did have real and lasting effects, for good and certainly in a great many cases for ill.  The impact has to be measured in specific historical-geographic terms.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2017, 08:08:16 PM »

Everyone needs to make more, not less.  I'm not a jealous type.

I live in the real world, not Lake Wobegon where all the jobs pay above average wages.
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