Do anti-abortion atheists exist?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I would imagine they do, given the large number of atheists who are interested in philosophy.

[Thunderbird is the word]

I was going to say Nat Hentoff which I see somebody else already did. I strongly disagreed with him on the abortion issue but could respect his conviction and understand what motivated it and I was a fan of his in other areas and just of his writing in general.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I would imagine they do, given the large number of atheists who are interested in philosophy.

Interested in philosophy = pro-life? I don't follow.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Of course they do. The arguments surrounding the existence of a fetal heartbeat, ability to feel pain, ability to live outside the womb (albeit with medical assistance) at around 24 weeks, or simply that the fetus is human from the start of the pregnancy can be well-argued without quoting scripture. Atheists are more likely to be pro-choice because they tend to be politically liberal and so adopt the pro-choice view to "fit in" with their group even if they don't exactly like it (obligatory reminder that the most recent democratic presidential nominee basically called pro-lifers terrorists), and simply because abortion is easier to support when you don't have to answer to a higher power for your support of it.

[buritobr]

I know I'm about to catch some flak for this, but here goes:

Why should abortion be any more of a religiously divisive issues than murder? The contention here is not one of killing being bad, but what exactly constitutes killing. Ergo, let's figure out when life starts, and people of all religious beliefs, and those who lack religious beliefs, will agree it's wrong to abort after that.

I'm not sure why you'd get flak for this, at least on this forum.  The current abortion divide is a good example of people taking most of their positions from their "camp" without thinking about it, similar to previous Evangelical adherence to small government.

But comparing today to the early 1990s in the USA, the number of people supporting gay marriage and legalization of the cannabis increased, while the number of people supporting to keep abortion legal decreased. These issues are not walking together. There are many people who are liberal in some of these issues and conservative in other of these issues.

[DC Al Fine]

I know I'm about to catch some flak for this, but here goes:

Why should abortion be any more of a religiously divisive issues than murder? The contention here is not one of killing being bad, but what exactly constitutes killing. Ergo, let's figure out when life starts, and people of all religious beliefs, and those who lack religious beliefs, will agree it's wrong to abort after that.

I'm not sure why you'd get flak for this, at least on this forum.  The current abortion divide is a good example of people taking most of their positions from their "camp" without thinking about it, similar to previous Evangelical adherence to small government.

But comparing today to the early 1990s in the USA, the number of people supporting gay marriage and legalization of the cannabis increased, while the number of people supporting to keep abortion legal decreased. These issues are not walking together. There are many people who are liberal in some of these issues and conservative in other of these issues.

Sure, it's a tendency, not a hard and fast rule. Social change is still going to do its thing.

[Person Man]

Do you think more atheists want abortion to be illegal not because its violent but because its dishonest?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Do you think more atheists want abortion to be illegal not because its violent but because its dishonest?

What does this mean?

[TDAS04]

I would think so, I can think of secular arguments against abortion.

[Waterfall]

I have two friends who are both atheists and anti-abortion.

[Person Man]

Do you think more atheists want abortion to be illegal not because its violent but because its dishonest?

What does this mean?

Not thinking that abortion is murder, but simply allows you to avoid the consequences of "marriage" and engage in a type of adultery (sex outside of consequences of marriage) in a fraudulent way.
 Like the time in school I got my car booted for parking in the wrong spot because there was no other parking and drove off with it. The school gave me a ticket for "Fraud". It wasn't reported to the Government, but it was a $190 bursar's hold. That's probably why Abortion is usually a mid-level felony and not the highest offense though many abortion bans were started because it was determined to be dangerous the way coke, meth, or even weed is.

[Leinad]

I'm close to that, in that I oppose abortion and am agnostic (an atheist being an agnostic who rounds down).

[Antonio the Sixth]

(an atheist being an agnostic who rounds down)

I disagree. I'd argue that there's a fundamental epistemological difference between the two.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Of course. There's plenty of reasons to oppose abortion without bringing religion into the mix.

[Person Man]

Of course. There's plenty of reasons to oppose abortion without bringing religion into the mix.

And you don't even have to think its murder to want it to be illegal. My guess is a good deal of those who want abortion to be illegal, especially those who think it should still somehow be legal where there was never any consent to start the pregnancy or the pregnancy turns out to be dangerous.

[Torie]

I am an atheist, and favor putting limits on late term abortions.

[Person Man]

I am an atheist, and favor putting limits on late term abortions.

Yeah. But you don't think the current majority of abortions should be followed by someone facing incarceration or worse.

[Waterfall]

Yeah. But you don't think the current majority of abortions should be followed by someone facing incarceration or worse.

The anti-abortion position doesn't specify what the punishment for illegally getting an abortion should be, only that abortion should (at least in all but a few cases) be illegal.

[Person Man]

Yeah. But you don't think the current majority of abortions should be followed by someone facing incarceration or worse.

The anti-abortion position doesn't specify what the punishment for illegally getting an abortion should be, only that abortion should (at least in all but a few cases) be illegal.

But that the maximum sentence would at least be a day or more of jail time makes it a crime rather than a ticket. Do you think there are those who want abortion to be the same as a speeding ticket? It would technically be illegal.

[Waterfall]

Yeah. But you don't think the current majority of abortions should be followed by someone facing incarceration or worse.

The anti-abortion position doesn't specify what the punishment for illegally getting an abortion should be, only that abortion should (at least in all but a few cases) be illegal.

But that the maximum sentence would at least be a day or more of jail time makes it a crime rather than a ticket. Do you think there are those who want abortion to be the same as a speeding ticket? It would technically be illegal.

I have personally known people who want abortion to be technically illegal but not enforced!

Like I said, the anti-abortion does not prescribe a particular level of punishment.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Do you think more atheists want abortion to be illegal not because its violent but because its dishonest?

What does this mean?

Not thinking that abortion is murder, but simply allows you to avoid the consequences of "marriage" and engage in a type of adultery (sex outside of consequences of marriage) in a fraudulent way.
 Like the time in school I got my car booted for parking in the wrong spot because there was no other parking and drove off with it. The school gave me a ticket for "Fraud". It wasn't reported to the Government, but it was a $190 bursar's hold. That's probably why Abortion is usually a mid-level felony and not the highest offense though many abortion bans were started because it was determined to be dangerous the way coke, meth, or even weed is.

That's a really twisted attitude. I'm sure it did enter into lawmakers' thinking back in the day and it definitely enters into some people's thinking still today, but if anything I would expect pro-life atheists, to their credit, would be less likely to think of it that way and more likely to think of it as a nonviolence issue than pro-life religious people.

[Torie]

I am an atheist, and favor putting limits on late term abortions.

Yeah. But you don't think the current majority of abortions should be followed by someone facing incarceration or worse.

There are very few late term abortions, so no. If a late term abortion happened that was not within sensible exceptions (such as a material physical health risk to the mother, as verified in some independent way), I would think the punishment would involve just the performer of the abortion, and if an MD, involve suspending or revoking such MD's medical license.

So yes, your statement is correct. And I don't favor any restrictions on earlier term abortions.

[Person Man]

Do you think more atheists want abortion to be illegal not because its violent but because its dishonest?

What does this mean?

Not thinking that abortion is murder, but simply allows you to avoid the consequences of "marriage" and engage in a type of adultery (sex outside of consequences of marriage) in a fraudulent way.
 Like the time in school I got my car booted for parking in the wrong spot because there was no other parking and drove off with it. The school gave me a ticket for "Fraud". It wasn't reported to the Government, but it was a $190 bursar's hold. That's probably why Abortion is usually a mid-level felony and not the highest offense though many abortion bans were started because it was determined to be dangerous the way coke, meth, or even weed is.

That's a really twisted attitude. I'm sure it did enter into lawmakers' thinking back in the day and it definitely enters into some people's thinking still today, but if anything I would expect pro-life atheists, to their credit, would be less likely to think of it that way and more likely to think of it as a nonviolence issue than pro-life religious people.

I hear a lot of conservatives talking about "personal responsibility" issues in reference to abortion.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Do you think more atheists want abortion to be illegal not because its violent but because its dishonest?

What does this mean?

Not thinking that abortion is murder, but simply allows you to avoid the consequences of "marriage" and engage in a type of adultery (sex outside of consequences of marriage) in a fraudulent way.
 Like the time in school I got my car booted for parking in the wrong spot because there was no other parking and drove off with it. The school gave me a ticket for "Fraud". It wasn't reported to the Government, but it was a $190 bursar's hold. That's probably why Abortion is usually a mid-level felony and not the highest offense though many abortion bans were started because it was determined to be dangerous the way coke, meth, or even weed is.

That's a really twisted attitude. I'm sure it did enter into lawmakers' thinking back in the day and it definitely enters into some people's thinking still today, but if anything I would expect pro-life atheists, to their credit, would be less likely to think of it that way and more likely to think of it as a nonviolence issue than pro-life religious people.

I hear a lot of conservatives talking about "personal responsibility" issues in reference to abortion.

So do I, and it's a pretty perverse way to look at it.