Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
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  Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence
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Author Topic: Obama Commutes Bulk of Chelsea Manning’s Sentence  (Read 2963 times)
The_Doctor
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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2017, 07:35:58 PM »

Lefties, "but Manning did a noble thing in exposing x and y as did Snowden while Assange was trying to *sobbing* cheat Clinton out of her victory" is not a rationale, by the way. It's a partisan scapegoat. All three deliberately leaked classified information to influence American domestic and national security policies. All broke the law doing so. In fact, Assange didn't leak classified information about Clinton: he merely leaked hacked political emails (that by the way didn't probably sway the elections as much as Comey did).

Righties: "But Assange gave us valuable information about Hillary! And Snowden and Manning *sobbing* VIOLATED national security!" flies into the same problem. They all tried to illegally influence American policy and politics. And in this case, you can't even divorce Assange from Manning since Manning gave the Wikileaks cables to Assange.





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The_Doctor
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« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2017, 07:37:00 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

I'm not sure that I like this pardon for the same reason that I don't like Assange leaking the information about the Clinton emails. Manning, Snowden, and Assange all leaked classified information to influence the United States' policy. How do you with a straight face say "OK, Assange did a bad thing but not Manning?"

Both the Left and the Right have exhibited behavior in this thread that are directly related to the person committing the action. Some of the Righties in this thread have probably said Assange was doing the right thing in leaking #PodestaEmails and are now blithely denouncing Manning's pardon. Ditto the Left screaming about Assange over the summer and now praising the pardon.

Either find a standard that isn't partisan or own up that you like or hate x and y because of the party label of the President or political actor doing the act.
Snowden and Assange basically fled. Manning, I'm willing to show her more leniency because she's served about seven years and didn't flee like a coward.

My problem is that virtually no lib in this thread is going "OK, she did the wrong thing." And nobody is saying "OK, if Julian Assange served 7 years in prison, I want President x to pardon him." It's definitely skewed based on the perception of the political allegiance of that actor.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2017, 07:40:30 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

I'm not sure that I like this pardon for the same reason that I don't like Assange leaking the information about the Clinton emails. Manning, Snowden, and Assange all leaked classified information to influence the United States' policy. How do you with a straight face say "OK, Assange did a bad thing but not Manning?"

Both the Left and the Right have exhibited behavior in this thread that are directly related to the person committing the action. Some of the Righties in this thread have probably said Assange was doing the right thing in leaking #PodestaEmails and are now blithely denouncing Manning's pardon. Ditto the Left screaming about Assange over the summer and now praising the pardon.

Either find a standard that isn't partisan or own up that you like or hate x and y because of the party label of the President or political actor doing the act.
Snowden and Assange basically fled. Manning, I'm willing to show her more leniency because she's served about seven years and didn't flee like a coward.

I'm somewhere between these two points of view. This is not a good signal to send, regardless of the merits of the Manning situation, with all the Wikileaks news the last few weeks.
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2017, 08:04:45 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

I'm not sure that I like this pardon for the same reason that I don't like Assange leaking the information about the Clinton emails. Manning, Snowden, and Assange all leaked classified information to influence the United States' policy. How do you with a straight face say "OK, Assange did a bad thing but not Manning?"

Both the Left and the Right have exhibited behavior in this thread that are directly related to the person committing the action. Some of the Righties in this thread have probably said Assange was doing the right thing in leaking #PodestaEmails and are now blithely denouncing Manning's pardon. Ditto the Left screaming about Assange over the summer and now praising the pardon.

Either find a standard that isn't partisan or own up that you like or hate x and y because of the party label of the President or political actor doing the act.
Snowden and Assange basically fled. Manning, I'm willing to show her more leniency because she's served about seven years and didn't flee like a coward.

My problem is that virtually no lib in this thread is going "OK, she did the wrong thing." And nobody is saying "OK, if Julian Assange served 7 years in prison, I want President x to pardon him." It's definitely skewed based on the perception of the political allegiance of that actor.
If it makes you feel better, I'm about as liberal as you can get, And I think they should all be put up against a wall and shot for treason.
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Blue3
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« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2017, 08:05:40 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

I'm not sure that I like this pardon for the same reason that I don't like Assange leaking the information about the Clinton emails. Manning, Snowden, and Assange all leaked classified information to influence the United States' policy. How do you with a straight face say "OK, Assange did a bad thing but not Manning?"

Both the Left and the Right have exhibited behavior in this thread that are directly related to the person committing the action. Some of the Righties in this thread have probably said Assange was doing the right thing in leaking #PodestaEmails and are now blithely denouncing Manning's pardon. Ditto the Left screaming about Assange over the summer and now praising the pardon.

Either find a standard that isn't partisan or own up that you like or hate x and y because of the party label of the President or political actor doing the act.
Snowden and Assange basically fled. Manning, I'm willing to show her more leniency because she's served about seven years and didn't flee like a coward.

My problem is that virtually no lib in this thread is going "OK, she did the wrong thing." And nobody is saying "OK, if Julian Assange served 7 years in prison, I want President x to pardon him." It's definitely skewed based on the perception of the political allegiance of that actor.

Hello?



I don't agree with everything Chelsea Manning did, I don't see her as a hero... but I also don't see her as some terrible person either. I could see jailtime, but not more than 5-10 years, and from reports I read she received poor treatment at least initially.
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AtorBoltox
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« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2017, 08:06:50 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

I'm not sure that I like this pardon for the same reason that I don't like Assange leaking the information about the Clinton emails. Manning, Snowden, and Assange all leaked classified information to influence the United States' policy. How do you with a straight face say "OK, Assange did a bad thing but not Manning?"

Both the Left and the Right have exhibited behavior in this thread that are directly related to the person committing the action. Some of the Righties in this thread have probably said Assange was doing the right thing in leaking #PodestaEmails and are now blithely denouncing Manning's pardon. Ditto the Left screaming about Assange over the summer and now praising the pardon.

Either find a standard that isn't partisan or own up that you like or hate x and y because of the party label of the President or political actor doing the act.
Snowden and Assange basically fled. Manning, I'm willing to show her more leniency because she's served about seven years and didn't flee like a coward.

My problem is that virtually no lib in this thread is going "OK, she did the wrong thing." And nobody is saying "OK, if Julian Assange served 7 years in prison, I want President x to pardon him." It's definitely skewed based on the perception of the political allegiance of that actor.
If it makes you feel better, I'm about as liberal as you can get, And I think they should all be put up against a wall and shot for treason.
You are not liberal then
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« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2017, 08:10:45 PM »

The most salient difference in my opinion is that Assange fled prosecution for rape, not espionage.
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2017, 08:16:41 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

I'm not sure that I like this pardon for the same reason that I don't like Assange leaking the information about the Clinton emails. Manning, Snowden, and Assange all leaked classified information to influence the United States' policy. How do you with a straight face say "OK, Assange did a bad thing but not Manning?"

Both the Left and the Right have exhibited behavior in this thread that are directly related to the person committing the action. Some of the Righties in this thread have probably said Assange was doing the right thing in leaking #PodestaEmails and are now blithely denouncing Manning's pardon. Ditto the Left screaming about Assange over the summer and now praising the pardon.

Either find a standard that isn't partisan or own up that you like or hate x and y because of the party label of the President or political actor doing the act.
Snowden and Assange basically fled. Manning, I'm willing to show her more leniency because she's served about seven years and didn't flee like a coward.

My problem is that virtually no lib in this thread is going "OK, she did the wrong thing." And nobody is saying "OK, if Julian Assange served 7 years in prison, I want President x to pardon him." It's definitely skewed based on the perception of the political allegiance of that actor.
If it makes you feel better, I'm about as liberal as you can get, And I think they should all be put up against a wall and shot for treason.
You are not liberal then
Awww is my SPUSA membership card gonna get revoked because I don't fit in some pigeonhole?
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AtorBoltox
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« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2017, 08:27:26 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

I'm not sure that I like this pardon for the same reason that I don't like Assange leaking the information about the Clinton emails. Manning, Snowden, and Assange all leaked classified information to influence the United States' policy. How do you with a straight face say "OK, Assange did a bad thing but not Manning?"

Both the Left and the Right have exhibited behavior in this thread that are directly related to the person committing the action. Some of the Righties in this thread have probably said Assange was doing the right thing in leaking #PodestaEmails and are now blithely denouncing Manning's pardon. Ditto the Left screaming about Assange over the summer and now praising the pardon.

Either find a standard that isn't partisan or own up that you like or hate x and y because of the party label of the President or political actor doing the act.
Snowden and Assange basically fled. Manning, I'm willing to show her more leniency because she's served about seven years and didn't flee like a coward.

My problem is that virtually no lib in this thread is going "OK, she did the wrong thing." And nobody is saying "OK, if Julian Assange served 7 years in prison, I want President x to pardon him." It's definitely skewed based on the perception of the political allegiance of that actor.
If it makes you feel better, I'm about as liberal as you can get, And I think they should all be put up against a wall and shot for treason.
You are not liberal then
Awww is my SPUSA membership card gonna get revoked because I don't fit in some pigeonhole?
Do you seriously not know the difference between liberalism and socialism? Liberals don't support capital punishment or crackdowns on whistleblowers you pillock
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2017, 08:51:14 PM »

Pillock? LOL
It's a shame when my sarcasm is wasted on newbies.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2017, 08:57:58 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

One difference to me is that leaking files on possibly illegal/unconstitutional or out of control government behavior is different than hacking a private citizen's email account (which I think would include emails from DNC/DCCC staff). Second, blatantly structuring the leaks to tilt the election towards a certain candidate is ridiculous.

As far as I am concerned, the public has no right to see the emails from Clinton's campaign staff or DNC/DCCC staff. On the other hand, possible information on war crimes or out of control surveillance is definitely something the public has a right to know about (imo). I just don't trust my government to be reasonable about that, and it's clear now I was right to be skeptical.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2017, 08:58:39 PM »

The most salient difference in my opinion is that Assange fled prosecution for rape, not espionage.

This.

I support pardoning Snowden too, FTR.
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« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2017, 09:13:29 PM »

The problem with Assange is more than he's a rapist who takes marching orders than Putin than that he's leaked stuff.
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« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2017, 09:18:00 PM »

OK seriously, you guys rag on Assange for the Wikileaks for the Democratic Convention but Obama's doing a great thing all of a sudden?

I'm not sure that I like this pardon for the same reason that I don't like Assange leaking the information about the Clinton emails. Manning, Snowden, and Assange all leaked classified information to influence the United States' policy. How do you with a straight face say "OK, Assange did a bad thing but not Manning?"

Both the Left and the Right have exhibited behavior in this thread that are directly related to the person committing the action. Some of the Righties in this thread have probably said Assange was doing the right thing in leaking #PodestaEmails and are now blithely denouncing Manning's pardon. Ditto the Left screaming about Assange over the summer and now praising the pardon.

Either find a standard that isn't partisan or own up that you like or hate x and y because of the party label of the President or political actor doing the act.
Snowden and Assange basically fled. Manning, I'm willing to show her more leniency because she's served about seven years and didn't flee like a coward.

My problem is that virtually no lib in this thread is going "OK, she did the wrong thing." And nobody is saying "OK, if Julian Assange served 7 years in prison, I want President x to pardon him." It's definitely skewed based on the perception of the political allegiance of that actor.
I'd commute Assange's sentence if he served seven years, although he would still have to face rape charges in Sweden.

I'm not a liberal though, so I can't speak for them.
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« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2017, 09:20:41 PM »

If I were President I'd give a full pardon to both Manning and Snowden while having a death squad hunting Assange.
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Shadows
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« Reply #65 on: January 17, 2017, 09:23:33 PM »

Wow great job. It is fun to see some crazy lunatic reactions whom we can all put in a basket. Trolling aside, people have lost all humanity it seems. I hope Manning survives these few months & has a decent life. What she did was of incredible service to the people.
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Bojack Horseman
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« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2017, 09:39:12 PM »

This is identity politics at its worst. Bradley Manning screwed us in our goal of stopping Iran by leaking classified documents to a website that is directly responsible for the outcome of the 2016 election. Barack Obama only commuted his sentence because of his celebrity status with the transgender community.

Put simply: anyone who committed a crime like this deserves a harsh prison sentence. It's amazing that all you have to do nowadays to get out of prison is to join a minority community.
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« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2017, 09:49:29 PM »

Chelsea Manning is nothing short of a terrorist, and it makes me really mad that Obama is letting her free.

If it's terrorism that bothers you, you should be much more bothered by the Oscar López Rivera commutation that the White House announced concurrent with this one.

To be clear, I never referred to Manning by that first name.  A moderator (who must oppose free speech) changed it, and I don't want anyone to think that I would call Manning that.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2017, 09:51:34 PM »

kind of a problem for trump.....

either pardoning assange himself or forced to watch over his trial.

well, i would still bet assange is going to chicken-out.
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« Reply #69 on: January 17, 2017, 09:52:22 PM »

kind of a problem for trump.....

either pardoning assange himself or forced to watch over his trial.

well, i would still bet assange is going to chicken-out.

How can Trump pardon people convicted in Sweden?
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« Reply #70 on: January 17, 2017, 09:55:59 PM »

Chelsea Manning is nothing short of a terrorist, and it makes me really mad that Obama is letting her free.

If it's terrorism that bothers you, you should be much more bothered by the Oscar López Rivera commutation that the White House announced concurrent with this one.

To be clear, I never referred to Manning by that first name.  A moderator (who must oppose free speech) changed it, and I don't want anyone to think that I would call Manning that.

I'm not even moist at this point; I'm fcking soaked!

This is identity politics at its worst. Bradley Manning screwed us in our goal of stopping Iran by leaking classified documents to a website that is directly responsible for the outcome of the 2016 election. Barack Obama only commuted his sentence because of his celebrity status with the transgender community.

Put simply: anyone who committed a crime like this deserves a harsh prison sentence. It's amazing that all you have to do nowadays to get out of prison is to join a minority community.

There you go again with this sht.  How many times are you going to apologize for talking about transgender people before you actually mean it?
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Cubby
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« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2017, 10:01:16 PM »

I love Obama so much. Cry I will miss this beautiful era in American history. We may never see one so great ever again.

I agree. We were not worthy of his greatness

This is identity politics at its worst. Bradley Manning screwed us in our goal of stopping Iran by leaking classified documents to a website that is directly responsible for the outcome of the 2016 election. Barack Obama only commuted his sentence because of his celebrity status with the transgender community.

Put simply: anyone who committed a crime like this deserves a harsh prison sentence. It's amazing that all you have to do nowadays to get out of prison is to join a minority community.

He was already in the minority community when he leaked the papers, he didn't "join" it later to get off scot free as you so rudely imply.
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Bojack Horseman
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« Reply #72 on: January 17, 2017, 10:59:39 PM »

Chelsea Manning is nothing short of a terrorist, and it makes me really mad that Obama is letting her free.

If it's terrorism that bothers you, you should be much more bothered by the Oscar López Rivera commutation that the White House announced concurrent with this one.

To be clear, I never referred to Manning by that first name.  A moderator (who must oppose free speech) changed it, and I don't want anyone to think that I would call Manning that.

I'm not even moist at this point; I'm fcking soaked!

This is identity politics at its worst. Bradley Manning screwed us in our goal of stopping Iran by leaking classified documents to a website that is directly responsible for the outcome of the 2016 election. Barack Obama only commuted his sentence because of his celebrity status with the transgender community.

Put simply: anyone who committed a crime like this deserves a harsh prison sentence. It's amazing that all you have to do nowadays to get out of prison is to join a minority community.

There you go again with this sht.  How many times are you going to apologize for talking about transgender people before you actually mean it?

Well here's your clarification: Nobody deserves a commutation after they deliberately endangered national security in such a reckless way. The transgender issue is the only reason that makes sense as to why he would have pardoned such a traitor.
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« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2017, 12:06:42 AM »

He obviously did it to encourage more whistleblowers under Trump and call Assange's bluff.
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« Reply #74 on: January 18, 2017, 06:43:30 AM »

Chelsea Manning is nothing short of a terrorist, and it makes me really mad that Obama is letting her free.

If it's terrorism that bothers you, you should be much more bothered by the Oscar López Rivera commutation that the White House announced concurrent with this one.

To be clear, I never referred to Manning by that first name.  A moderator (who must oppose free speech) changed it, and I don't want anyone to think that I would call Manning that.

It's not only polite, but essential for legibility we use people's preferred names. Do you also refer to Gerald Ford as 'Leslie Lynch King Jr'? And don't give me any of that crap about her not being allowed to adopt a female name - you're from the south, a region where half of all men walk around with names like Lindsey or Susannah or something.

(Also I reported you fwiw)
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