Palestinian unity government announced
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  Palestinian unity government announced
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Author Topic: Palestinian unity government announced  (Read 923 times)
Cashew
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« on: January 17, 2017, 10:08:23 PM »

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http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.765719

How long it is expected to last remains an open question however...
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Potus
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 10:18:25 AM »

Again, the conventional wisdom is to carve up the only plural democracy with respect for fundamental human rights and give the Palestinians a self-governing state. Recipe for terror, war, and even more regional instability. Maybe Islamic Jihad will be pacified by giving up the settlements!
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Dereich
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 12:31:49 PM »

Again, the conventional wisdom is to carve up the only plural democracy with respect for fundamental human rights and give the Palestinians a self-governing state. Recipe for terror, war, and even more regional instability. Maybe Islamic Jihad will be pacified by giving up the settlements!

"Carve up" is a pretty disingenuous term to use when referring to a region like the West Bank with very different people conquered in battle and ruled without the consent of the governed or full civil rights for the majority population. By that standard I suppose Germany was carved up in 1945 with the loss of the Netherlands, Belgium, Northern France, and Denmark.

And of course Islamic Jihad is never going to be appeased but that isn't the question is it? But if the basic right of self determination isn't enough, a successful two state solution is still the correct answer for security as well. What exactly do you expect the Palestinians to do when they continue to live without fundamental rights and a government seemingly unable to achieve anything through negotiations? The islamists are the only groups offering some kind of hope and vision for the future. Successful initiatives by the PLO should always be applauded as the best hope as they offer the only viable alternative to radical Islam. And far from more instability, a working solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict might actually allow the trade and middle class development that lead to long term peace. Very few people will fight a war they don't have to fight.
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dead0man
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 12:58:13 PM »

They will if their stupid clergy tell them that their stupid god has demanded that they fight.
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ag
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 01:26:20 PM »

Again, the conventional wisdom is to carve up the only plural democracy with respect for fundamental human rights and give the Palestinians a self-governing state. Recipe for terror, war, and even more regional instability. Maybe Islamic Jihad will be pacified by giving up the settlements!

Nobody is talking about "carving up" Israel. It is not on the agenda.

You are forgetting that the territory of the presumed Palestinian state has never been part of that democracy. Israel controls it, but does so outside of its own democratic system. Palestinians have neither the voting rights within the Israeli polity, nor equal protection in front of the law (as, of course, distinct from the Israeli Arabs). In parts of the West Bank not already under effective Palestinian control, it is a military government, at least as far as the native population is concerned.  Of course, both Gaza and some chunks of the West Bank no longer even have Israeli military government: they are under Palestinian civil control, with Israel retaining only the control over the external perimeter.

And, of course, most Israelis are strongly opposed to incoroporating Palestinians into their democratic polity. Had Israel offerred citizenship to the population of the territory in question, there would have been something to dicuss. As it is, no such offer is on the table. So, the choice is, letting Israel continue running the show as it has always done - that is without practicing either democracy or respect of fundamental rights - or have somebody else take the responsibility.
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ag
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 01:27:04 PM »

They will if their stupid clergy tell them that their stupid god has demanded that they fight.

They are not Christian. So why would their clergy be either stupid or bloodthirsty?
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 01:51:01 PM »

They will if their stupid clergy tell them that their stupid god has demanded that they fight.

They are not Christian. So why would their clergy be either stupid or bloodthirsty?

Some of them are. Besides clergy is used for all religions.
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ag
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 01:53:43 PM »

They will if their stupid clergy tell them that their stupid god has demanded that they fight.

They are not Christian. So why would their clergy be either stupid or bloodthirsty?

Some of them are. Besides clergy is used for all religions.

Well, yeah, some of them are Smiley

I am aware of the meaning of the word "clergy". I was just trying to be offensive Smiley
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 05:02:16 PM »

By that standard I suppose Germany was carved up in 1945 with the loss of the Netherlands, Belgium, Northern France, and Denmark.

Its pre-1938 territory ended up in four (now three) different countries.
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Dereich
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 06:16:22 PM »

By that standard I suppose Germany was carved up in 1945 with the loss of the Netherlands, Belgium, Northern France, and Denmark.

Its pre-1938 territory ended up in four (now three) different countries.

If you want to strain the Germany-Israel/Palestine analogy, I guess the formerly German-majority territories that are now part of Poland, Russia and Denmark(?) could be compared to the settlements close to Israel's border.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2017, 11:31:33 PM »

Going back to the OP, I think that this "unity government" will end up like the previous ones, unable to unite and unable to govern.
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GMantis
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 03:17:20 AM »

Again, the conventional wisdom is to carve up the only plural democracy with respect for fundamental human rights and give the Palestinians a self-governing state. Recipe for terror, war, and even more regional instability. Maybe Islamic Jihad will be pacified by giving up the settlements!
So since you're opposed to Israel and the Palestinian territories being divided (though Israel itself has never actually agreed to them being unified) and consider fundamental human rights to be so important, I assume that you strongly support the incorporation of the Western Bank and Gaza strip into Israel and the granting of citizenship of all the inhabitants of these territories?
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