White House: Trump believes millions voted illegally

[Confused Democrat]

This is insane, and I'm still trying to rack my brain around this whole situation.

Spicer just reaffirmed the President's claim that millions of people voted illegally in the 2016 election, and I don't know what to make of this. Media outlets are jumping all over this, and I believe we all already know how this is going to play out...

The Trump administration is going to remain firm on this without providing any evidence, and they're going to (probably successfully) attack the press for focusing on an issue that "doesn't matter" to the American people.

Is this some sort of strategy by the Trump administration to delegitimize the press even further? Or is this just Trump being Trump?

[DavidB.]

Those are just alternative facts, didn't you get the memo?

[Confused Democrat]

Those are just alternative facts, didn't you get the memo?

I'm also uncomfortable with the fact that the term "alternative facts" is now a part of our vocabulary.

[Ban my account ffs!]

This is insane, and I'm still trying to rack my brain around this whole situation.

Spicer just reaffirmed the President's claim that millions of people voted illegally in the 2016 election, and I don't know what to make of this. Media outlets are jumping all over this, and I believe we all already know how this is going to play out...

The Trump administration is going to remain firm on this without providing any evidence, and they're going to (probably successfully) attack the press for focusing on an issue that "doesn't matter" to the American people.

Is this some sort of strategy by the Trump administration to delegitimize the press even further? Or is this just Trump being Trump?

Just like whining about Obama's executive orders ahead of time so they could justify truly abusing the power... they will do the same here.  They will make false claims and use that to justify a massive disenfranchisement.

[The Other Castro]

Amazing how this isn't taken that seriously because everyone already assumes that the President is a compulsive liar. It's only day four. 1457 more to go.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Amazing how this isn't taken that seriously because everyone already assumes that the President is a compulsive liar. It's only day four. 1457 more to go.

The actions taken to address the made up accusations won't be lies, though.  People are taking this stuff way too lightly.. like putting a basic gag order on all federal agencies. 

[Dr. Arch]

Make it stop...

[NerdyBohemian]

This will be their excuse to pass a federal voter suppression law.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Amazing how this isn't taken that seriously because everyone already assumes that the President is a compulsive liar. It's only day four. 1457 more to go.

The actions taken to address the made up accusations won't be lies, though.  People are taking this stuff way too lightly.. like putting a basic gag order on all federal agencies. 

I keep telling people not to normalize President Pussygrabber, but this is already worse than I expected.

We all need to keep reminding ourselves and everyone else that he is beyond the pale, functionally insane, and corrosive to democracy and freedom. This is not how Presidents act no matter what their political positions. Hopefully some of the Republicans will come to what senses they have.

[Ljube]

Those are just alternative facts, didn't you get the memo?

[President Johnson]

We all know that President Pussygrabber lives in his own reality. Bad!

[The_Doctor]

This is so stupid. It's like the moron in the White House is determined to step all over anything good he does and emphasize the retarded. He could've talked about abortion or about whatever but this is what he emphasises? The White House has no message discipline, just like the campaign.

[RI]

Someone really just needs to empirically test this and get it over with.

[Tender Branson]

While his claims of "millions voting illegally" are obviously retarded, the US doesn't really have a system in place which would prevent illegals from voting.

From what I know, if you register to vote in the US, you only have to check a box on the registration form if you are a citizen or not.

Nobody will check if you are a non-citizen when you check the citizen box, right (because you don't have to submit your citizenship certificate for proof) ?

So it's possible that groups who are registering people also register non-citizens, who are then also voting. Maybe a few hundred or a few thousand, certainly not a couple millions though ...

[President Johnson]

I guess there millions of illegals, that only The Donald sees, also were present at his inauguration, which became to most attended in history.

[CatoMinor]

Someone really just needs to empirically test this and get it over with.

I seriously doubt Trump eve knows what empirical means

[Ebowed]

Someone really just needs to empirically test this and get it over with.

What do you have in mind, exactly?  It's already been disproven.  Trump is lying.  End of story.

You don't think it's a coincidence that the number of illegal ballots is the same number he lost by to Hillary Clinton?

You think it's plausible that every single illegal ballot was cast for Clinton and not anyone else?

You really think there is widespread voter fraud that demonstrates the polling average was conclusively wrong, and that numerous secretaries of state are in on a scheme to delegitimize the popular vote loser?

Explain what you think should be 'tested.'  Otherwise, playing coy like that is no better than spreading the lies like Trump has been doing.

It's okay if you support President Trump.  You shouldn't lie in order to protect him.

[RI]

Someone really just needs to empirically test this and get it over with.

What do you have in mind, exactly?  It's already been disproven.  Trump is lying.  End of story.

No, it hasn't. There's never been a study sufficient to do so. Looking at surveys proves nothing. You need records of who voted (extant and acquirable, but expensive), and citizenship records.

Hell, I'd do it myself if I could get access to citizenship records, but I don't even know where to begin with that, which is a big part of the problem.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

No, he wants voter suppression to assure his re-election.

[Ebowed]

Someone really just needs to empirically test this and get it over with.

What do you have in mind, exactly?  It's already been disproven.  Trump is lying.  End of story.

No, it hasn't. There's never been a study sufficient to do so.

Hell, I'd do it myself if I could get access to citizenship records, but I don't even know where to begin with that, which is a big part of the problem.

No, hold on a second there, because in your effort to spread falsehoods and bring into question the records compiled on Dave Leip's US Election Atlas, you have conveniently left yourself open to all sorts of questions.

Do you think there was 'widespread illegal voter fraud' in 2012? 2008?  If not, why not?  If so, why weren't you out spreading these allegations back then?

You don't think it's strange that the same number of alleged illegal ballots is the margin of loss that Trump suffered to Clinton?  If he had lost by 10 million, it would be 10-12 million illegal ballots.  You do understand that, right?

Or did you basically throw your credibility out the window in order to pursue this line of reasoning?  Pretty embarrassing, dude.

[RI]

Someone really just needs to empirically test this and get it over with.

What do you have in mind, exactly?  It's already been disproven.  Trump is lying.  End of story.

No, it hasn't. There's never been a study sufficient to do so.

Hell, I'd do it myself if I could get access to citizenship records, but I don't even know where to begin with that, which is a big part of the problem.

No, hold on a second there, because in your effort to spread falsehoods and bring into question the records compiled on Dave Leip's US Election Atlas, you have conveniently left yourself open to all sorts of questions.

Do you think there was 'widespread illegal voter fraud' in 2012? 2008?  If not, why not?  If so, why weren't you out spreading these allegations back then?

You don't think it's strange that the same number of alleged illegal ballots is the margin of loss that Trump suffered to Clinton?  If he had lost by 10 million, it would be 10-12 million illegal ballots.  You do understand that, right?

Or did you basically throw your credibility out the window in order to pursue this line of reasoning?  Pretty embarrassing, dude.

Any illegal voting would likely be a long-term phenomenon correlating with illegal immigrant population levels. I suspect the true number is much, much lower than 10-12 million or whatever the current number is (maybe a tenth or fiftieth of that at very most), but we can't know for sure. I have zero doubt Trump is pulling numbers out of his ass, but that doesn't mean there isn't a valid signal in all the noise. Right now, it remains an untested-but-testable hypothesis, not a "lie" per se.

If the Dems are really the "party of science" then why not do some science and test a hypothesis rather than just dismissing it out of hand?

[Ebowed]

Any illegal voting would likely be a long-term phenomenon correlating with illegal immigrant population levels. I suspect the true number is much, much lower than 10-12 million or whatever the current number is (maybe a tenth or fiftieth of that at very most), but we can't know for sure. I have zero doubt Trump is pulling numbers out of his ass, but that doesn't mean there isn't a valid signal in all the noise. Right now, it remains an untested-but-testable hypothesis, not a "lie" per se.

Your suspicions aside, Trump attached a specific number to his allegation - again, the same number that he lost by - so it certainly is a "lie."  And we do know for sure.  It is statistically impossible that the exact number of votes that Trump lost by is also the same number of "illegal" ballots.  You don't think it's convenient that the states where he alleges this occurred - Virginia, New Hampshire, and California - are all states he lost?  Do you actually think that you can guarantee with 100% certainty who these "illegals" voted for - if they did vote?  Of course you can't.  And you should be aware that there are already plenty of legal mechanisms in place to ensure the validity of ballots cast.  If thousands of citizens get caught up in these bureaucratic hurdles, why would they be missing millions of undocumented, unregistered voters simultaneously?  That's completely ridiculous.  You are playing coy with the idea that because something can't be entirely disproven that it is not necessarily a lie.  Well, two can play that game.  We can't prove that Trump actually pays taxes, or doesn't have loads of STI's, or actually won Wisconsin, either.  I suppose you think all of those claims are perfectly honest?

The valid signal in the noise is the polling demonstrating a Clinton PV margin of about +3, which is exactly what occurred.  Unless you think numerous secretaries of state - many of them Republicans - are working in a concerted effort to systematically allow millions of undocumented people to vote?  The proposition requires that a significant number of undocumented people in the US would be risking being caught, and the associated consequences, just to cast a vote?  Hardly anybody is going to risk deportation to vote in an election where the person with the most votes doesn't even win.  It makes no sense.

[DrScholl]

Most people didn't even bother to cast their one vote, so it's absurd to think that millions voted illegally. The couple of cases of voter fraud both involved Trump voters, one of which claimed she voted twice in order to counteract voter fraud for Hillary. With that said, if there actually was that much fraud, Trump would have never won the election.

[Middle-aged Europe]

#LockHimUp #InAnInstitution

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Lord Trump is already gearing up for his inevitable life.....I mean re-election campaign in 2020.