Trump expected to sign EO targeting refugees on Wednesday

[Blue3]

So did this happen?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

So did this happen?

I recall reading something saying it's not going to happen until tomorrow and it will be a larger scale EO than originally thought.

Edit -

I found it, and thanks to Meclazine for posting it -

From CNN

"Officials said Trump would wait until later in the week to take action on visas and refugees, potentially as early as Thursday.

An order being prepared for Trump's signature includes the drastic measure of suspending the entire refugee program for four months in an attempt to gauge which country's migrants pose the least risk for US national security. A program for admitting Syrian refugees, who are fleeing civil war and a humanitarian crisis, would be ended indefinitely."

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I've already resigned myself to being outcasted in American society anyways. The next step is to be put into the Muslim registry...

[Bojack Horseman]

As Hillary Clinton said during the campaign, what are you going to do when the immigration officer doesn't believe you when you tell him you're a Christian/Jew/whatever religion other than Islam?

[Santander]

As Hillary Clinton said during the campaign, what are you going to do when the immigration officer doesn't believe you when you tell him you're a Christian/Jew/whatever religion other than Islam?

This is based on nationality, not religion.

[publicunofficial]

The 9/11 hijackers came from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. None of these countries are on the list. Why?

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

It is really funny how people from cities and neighborhoods where less than 1% are Muslims (Arizona? North Carolina? Mexico City?) are trying to school me about tolerance while I live in a big Western European city, specifically in an "inner city area" that is over 35% Muslim. I entertain good relations with Muslims in my neighborhood and respect many of their customs. However, as for Omegascarlet's question, in my life I have experienced discrimination both for being a Jew and for my sexuality, and the fact of the matter is that Muslim immigration hasn't exactly improved Jews' and LGBT people's position here in Europe. The security measures for my synagogue are insane and every other month there is another story of gay people being beaten up in Amsterdam, and the perpetrators' names seldom sound Dutch... wonder why Barcelona and Tel Aviv are now the gay capitals instead of Amsterdam? Sure, there absolutely are European antisemites and homophobes, but there would be a hell of a lot fewer problems if not for Muslim immigrants and their descendants. That's the truth and while Americans are often pretty naive on this issue, everybody here knows it. I do not support measures that are solely intended to make European Muslims' lives harder, which is not moral and will work counterproductively anyway, but let's please not repeat our mistake by letting even more of them in. It is in that light that I support Trump's executive order, and I don't care how unpopular that would make me among people on the other side of the world.

This sounds like the same crap that gets spouted about any new ethnic group in a country. You're just justifying your bigotry.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The good times have never seemed so good.

[Reaganfan]

Just because you lock your door doesn't mean you aren't a good person. It means you are safe, smart and secure.

Clearly the notion of American security doesn't matter to liberals, since their worldview involves globalism with open borders.

[TDAS04]

The good bad times have never seemed so good bad.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Excellent idea. Don't be like Europe. Stop Muslim immigration.

Just a shame it's on the basis of country instead of religion. Political correctness gone wild, sad!

You're embracing the same ideological tendency that left Jews to die in the Holocaust and that will, most assuredly, lead to similar atrocities in the Middle East going forward. Many gay people will die in the Middle East because of this Executive Order, including a language instructor at a university I went to. He applied for asylum this fall and came out to his family in Iraq. Now he's going to go home to die.

This isn't even about "having a heart" per se. You have to acknowledge that there are disturbing consequences when you try to regulate the flow of people in this manner. It's unnatural, it generalizes with a broad-brush etc. No one should cheer something like this. It's something that I can understand tolerating but celebrating an EO like this is disturbing.

How far we have fallen.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

The good times have never seemed so good.

A lot of immigrants aren't going to get deported for doing the same drugs that you do. Somehow they're the criminals and you aren't.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Excellent idea. Don't be like Europe. Stop Muslim immigration.

Just a shame it's on the basis of country instead of religion. Political correctness gone wild, sad!

You're embracing the same ideological tendency that left Jews to die in the Holocaust.

Tweets didn't do that.

More to the point, it wasn't just negative stereotypes that led to the lack of reaction to the wholesale slaughter of Jews, Roma, and other groups targeted by the Nazis and their collaborators across Europe. Positive stereotypes also played a role. After all, civilized Germans would never be capable of such barbarity, so those reports of atrocities must be exaggerations and/or lies. That same mindset is what allows Holocaust deniers to get believed by a few despite the abundant evidence to the contrary.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Excellent idea. Don't be like Europe. Stop Muslim immigration.

Just a shame it's on the basis of country instead of religion. Political correctness gone wild, sad!

You're embracing the same ideological tendency that left Jews to die in the Holocaust.

Tweets didn't do that.

More to the point, it wasn't just negative stereotypes that led to the lack of reaction to the wholesale slaughter of Jews, Roma, and other groups targeted by the Nazis and their collaborators across Europe. Positive stereotypes also played a role. After all, civilized Germans would never be capable of such barbarity, so those reports of atrocities must be exaggerations and/or lies. That same mindset is what allows Holocaust deniers to get believed by a few despite the abundant evidence to the contrary.

?

I'm saying that if the 1920s wave of anti-immigrant sentiment never occurred that a lot of Jews wouldn't have died in the Holocaust, which is undeniably the case. Liberalized immigration laws would have saved many lives.

[Tartarus Sauce]

It is really funny how people from cities and neighborhoods where less than 1% are Muslims (Arizona? North Carolina? Mexico City?) are trying to school me about tolerance while I live in a big Western European city, specifically in an "inner city area" that is over 35% Muslim. I entertain good relations with Muslims in my neighborhood and respect many of their customs. However, as for Omegascarlet's question, in my life I have experienced discrimination both for being a Jew and for my sexuality, and the fact of the matter is that Muslim immigration hasn't exactly improved Jews' and LGBT people's position here in Europe. The security measures for my synagogue are insane and every other month there is another story of gay people being beaten up in Amsterdam, and the perpetrators' names seldom sound Dutch... wonder why Barcelona and Tel Aviv are now the gay capitals instead of Amsterdam? Sure, there absolutely are European antisemites and homophobes, but there would be a hell of a lot fewer problems if not for Muslim immigrants and their descendants. That's the truth and while Americans are often pretty naive on this issue, everybody here knows it. I do not support measures that are solely intended to make European Muslims' lives harder, which is not moral and will work counterproductively anyway, but let's please not repeat our mistake by letting even more of them in. It is in that light that I support Trump's executive order, and I don't care how unpopular that would make me among people on the other side of the world.

Europe's cultural integration leaves a lot to be desired. Between the left never willing to criticism Islam, overbearing welfare state, its anti-semitic past, and national identity that has a strong correlation to ethnicity, it's easy to see why Europe isn't great at absorbing immigrants.

That doesn't mean it's Europe's fault, but what it does mean is, the US can and should do better than Europe

This, so much this. The hysteria over Muslim immigrants is way overblown in the U.S. It's a legitimate crisis in Europe but isn't here and was never on track to be to begin with. Most estimates I've seen have Muslims growing between 1%-2% of the general population between now and 2050, so they aren't exactly pouring in overseas by the bucketload, yet you would be forgiven for thinking so given how obsessed the Right has become over the issue. As a nation founded on immigration, we've always succeeded in assimilating various ethnic groups into our overarching culture and instilling them with our political values. It's worked like a charm every time, yet with each immigration wave, Americans freaked out, assuming generations of non-assimilating scoundrels would take root and "taint" the healthy, white blood-line. Obviously the genetic component has subsided quite a bit, but the anxieties of social upheaval have been amplified. Yet each time, within two or three generations, each new immigrant group has been considered just as American as anybody else. As a nation, we excel at integrating the offspring of immigrants into the larger sociocultural fabric of America, and the Muslims have been no exception.

Unless of course, we decide to go down the route Trump and the right-wing is increasingly itching for and do our damndest to isolate, marginalize, malign, and expel the entire Muslim community at large. Good way to send them running into the arms of the likes of ISIS who's own stated goal is to seed discontentment among the Western nations in regards to Muslims so that the harsh treatment they receive in turn bolsters ISIS's and the like's claim as being the true protectors of the Muslim world. ISIS, Al-qaeda, really all militant Islamist groups would love nothing more than a clash of civilizations between the Muslim world and the West.

Islam is going through a really rough phase right now, the broader Muslim community is struggling with deep-rooted issues exacerbated by modernity, and these issues need to be addressed rather than deflected. By the same token, the Republicans really need to take a damn chill pill on the Islamophobia. The right wing's knee jerk, irrational, emotionally-driven, fearmongering and encouragement of wholesale stigmatization and antagonism towards anyone and anything Islamic only serves to benefit our enemies, and weakens our own national security rather than strengthening it.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Australia have already done it:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/muslim-migration-to-australia-the-big-slowdown/news-story/6be73d718d50476f940e30281d885b99

"Immigration officials tell The Australian that the low number of Muslim immigrants from the Middle East arriving in recent years has nothing to do with their religion, since applicants are not asked to state their faith when they apply to settle.

Instead, they say, it’s an unintended consequence of a migration policy that is almost entirely focused on attracting skilled and family reunion migrants from countries such as India (now Australia’s No 1 source of permanent migrants, with 34,874 arrivals last year) and China (27,874)."

Australia are over it. We have received the ultimate insult from muslim immigration. Islamic Terrorism. In other words, random murder of innocent people by over-radicalised young men.

As such, we have a female Donald Trump named Pauline Hanson who has come out and asked to stop muslim immigration altogether.

http://www.onenation.com.au/policies/islam

Pauline has written out her policies in full, and dare I say, they may mirror Donald Trump's.

From not having any candidates 4 years ago, she will probably win 15-20% of the votes in the upcoming Western Australian state election.

The reaction can be attributed to the European terrorist attacks from Syrians and North Africans following the failed Syrian immigration experiment.

Donald Trump is simply not taking any chances and neither are we.

I think people are mistaken if they think that the USA is alone is in it's reduction of Islamic immigration. You can simply change the criteria to be "country based" and that avoids the anti-muslim tag.

It's anti-muslim, no question, but within the bounds of our policies.

[DavidB.]

Excellent idea. Don't be like Europe. Stop Muslim immigration.

Just a shame it's on the basis of country instead of religion. Political correctness gone wild, sad!

You're embracing the same ideological tendency that left Jews to die in the Holocaust and that will, most assuredly, lead to similar atrocities in the Middle East going forward. Many gay people will die in the Middle East because of this Executive Order, including a language instructor at a university I went to. He applied for asylum this fall and came out to his family in Iraq. Now he's going to go home to die.

This isn't even about "having a heart" per se. You have to acknowledge that there are disturbing consequences when you try to regulate the flow of people in this manner. It's unnatural, it generalizes with a broad-brush etc. No one should cheer something like this. It's something that I can understand tolerating but celebrating an EO like this is disturbing.

How far we have fallen.

The situation of Jews before the Shoah in Europe and that of Muslims in the Middle East right now is uncomparable because Jews' behavior in Europe was different than Muslims' behavior in the West right now (I don't recall a Jewish 9/11). In addition to that, European antisemtism is a problem not caused by Jews whereas the ongoing stream of intra-Ummah violence is a problem endogeneous to the Muslim world; why should the West bear the negative consequences?

Note that since I'm not historically illiterate, I'm not talking about "not integrating" or whatever; that's just fine by me. Ostjuden in Berlin didn't exactly assimilate either. I don't mind Muslims dressing differently, praying differently, thinking differently, or eating differently, and I would be a massive hypocrite if I did. What I mind is too many Muslims expecting non-Muslims to conform to their rules, committing acts of terrorism because of their religion, and blaming everything on the West while living conditions for a Muslim in the West are infinitely better than for a Muslim in the Middle East. Violent crimes by Muslim youth cannot solely be understood through socio-economic disparities or whatever: they are rooted in a culture that fundamentally disrepects non-Muslims and views taking over non-Muslim areas through intimidation and street terror as legitimate. Moreover, many Muslims' tendency to act on their disapproval of Jews and LGBT people and on women's freedom poses a big problem and is perhaps inevitable. It is that type of behavior I loathe, and we've got a big problem on our hands here in Europe.

LGBT people are a group that should absolutely be part of an exception to the rule and if this executive order would not include such an exception, that would be an aspect I most definitely do not support.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Well said.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Excellent idea. Don't be like Europe. Stop Muslim immigration.

Just a shame it's on the basis of country instead of religion. Political correctness gone wild, sad!

You're embracing the same ideological tendency that left Jews to die in the Holocaust.

Tweets didn't do that.

More to the point, it wasn't just negative stereotypes that led to the lack of reaction to the wholesale slaughter of Jews, Roma, and other groups targeted by the Nazis and their collaborators across Europe. Positive stereotypes also played a role. After all, civilized Germans would never be capable of such barbarity, so those reports of atrocities must be exaggerations and/or lies. That same mindset is what allows Holocaust deniers to get believed by a few despite the abundant evidence to the contrary.

?

I'm saying that if the 1920s wave of anti-immigrant sentiment never occurred that a lot of Jews wouldn't have died in the Holocaust, which is undeniably the case. Liberalized immigration laws would have saved many lives.

Maybe another 100,000 or so, which while not insignificant is but a small fraction of those lost. The Jews in the areas Germany occupied were largely not prescient enuf to foresee Nazi occupation, let alone what the Nazis would do, until war made emmigration impossible. Not only that, but presumably more liberal immigration to the U.S. would've meant more liberal immigration elsewhere, so a number of those fleeing Germany wouldn't have fled far enuf.

It wasn't worries about German Jews that led to the tightening of immigration, but concerns about immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe, including the Jews thereof. Germany had a immigration quota of 57,000 under the Johnson-Reed Act.

[Sir Mohamed]

We don’t want to sign executive orders like Obama does. We want to go through congress, the way it is supposed to be… Who said this? Oh wait…

[Devout Centrist]

No seriously. Listen to Daloy Politsey. It's a Yiddish song about killing the police and the Tsar. Perhaps not religious terrorism, but that's still terrorism.

(Edited to delete quote of sock. - TF)

[Derpist]

No seriously. Listen to Daloy Politsey. It's a Yiddish song about killing the police and the Tsar. Perhaps not religious terrorism, but that's still terrorism.

In response to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire

Muslims are not getting pogromed in the West, even if many rampage as if seeing other people drink or interact with dogs is the equivalent.

(Edited to delete quote of sock. - TF)

[Devout Centrist]

No seriously. Listen to Daloy Politsey. It's a Yiddish song about killing the police and the Tsar. Perhaps not religious terrorism, but that's still terrorism.

In response to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire

Muslims are not getting pogromed in the West, even if many rampage as if seeing other people drink or interact with dogs is the equivalent.

Syrian Civil War
Wars against ISIS
Afghan Civil War
Libyan Civil War

And that's not the point. Muslims, however, are dying and the US is in a prime position to help integrate people and yet we're choosing not to. We're historically better at this than Europe, and yet, we're not doing much.

(Edited to delete quote of sock. - TF)

[ag]

No seriously. Listen to Daloy Politsey. It's a Yiddish song about killing the police and the Tsar. Perhaps not religious terrorism, but that's still terrorism.

Most of the main terrrorist leaders in Russia were Jewish. The main terrorist group there was set up by Grigory Gershuni - who, after fleeing from the Siberian hard labor, not only had no trouble getting into the US, but actually spent months there fundraising for terror before moving back to Europe (Switzerland, initially, if I am not mistaken), largely among the Jewish immigrants. The Russian Imperial Embassy followed his every step, but could do nothing: he was fully protected by the US. The guy had been convicted of organizing murders of top oficials and members of the royal family back home (which he, most certainly, did).

True, like most Arab terrorists 40 years ago, these people were sociallists, rather  than religious fundamentalists.

(Edited to delete quote of sock. - TF)

[Derpist]

No seriously. Listen to Daloy Politsey. It's a Yiddish song about killing the police and the Tsar. Perhaps not religious terrorism, but that's still terrorism.

In response to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire

Muslims are not getting pogromed in the West, even if many rampage as if seeing other people drink or interact with dogs is the equivalent.

Syrian Civil War
Wars against ISIS
Afghan Civil War
Libyan Civil War

And that's not the point. Muslims, however, are dying and the US is in a prime position to help integrate people and yet we're choosing not to. We're historically better at this than Europe, and yet, we're not doing much.

Many European countries, France especially, are far more of a melting pot than people give them credit. Their problem with immigrants is almost exclusively restricted to violent Muslims, of which there are relatively few in America (due to geography). Many of our Muslims are also local black Americans or Persians fleeing the Islamic Republic. As opposed to Syrians fleeing an anti-Jihadist government.

They're a ticking time bomb compared to almost any other immigrant group conceivable, which is why the same country that is broadly in favor of amnesty for illegal Hispanic/Asian immigrants also doesn't want these Muslim migrants.

(Edited to delete quote of sock. - TF)