US-Mexico border wall

[Meclazine for Israel]

And here we go.

This is the big one Donald needs to get across the line.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/25/trump-to-order-construction-us-mexican-border-wall-reportedly-to-suspend-refugee-program.html

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/breaking-trump-expected-to-sign-order-to-build-that-wall-862105155889

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/donald-trump-immigration-refugees/index.html

And now we wait and see how quickly he can get this off the ground.

[MasterJedi]

He can order it all he wants but he can't appropriate funds. If he does that then we can just get rid of Congress.

[Mr. Reactionary]

He can order it all he wants but he can't appropriate funds. If he does that then we can just get rid of Congress.

Yeah. There is probably some discretionary money to start planning but a wall will cost a hell of a lot.

[Santander]

He can order it all he wants but he can't appropriate funds. If he does that then we can just get rid of Congress.

Hopefully.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Promise kept.

[ag]

Will never get built in the end

No, it will be. It will cause a gazzillion to build and much more to run, it will not do much for its stated purpose, but it will be built. Of the real cost of construction 200% will be paid by Mexico, 300% by the US and 100% by the rest of the world. A lot of people will become rich (its main purpose, of course, and why it will be built). After the War people will travel to marvel at its remains from all over: finally, there will be a tourist attraction in Nogales.

[The_Doctor]

LOL ag, have you read "Why Nations Fail?" Nogales is prominently menioned in the beginning.

Anyway, the Wall is not something I oppose. Greater border security is a great idea but honestly, 75% of Latinos in the United States are native born...it's not going to change a thing in terms of Latino voting patterns or growth. If anything, it'll make them more Democratic because they KNOW there is a giant wall aimed at them telling them "you are not welcome."

I support the wall but it's not a huge priority for me (for border security reasons). But I would never do the wall politically because it's just stupid politics to antagonize a growing voting bloc that will be crucial in Republican states in the Southwest and Southeast in the next 10 years.

[ag]

LOL ag, have you read "Why Nations Fail?" Nogales is prominently menioned in the beginning.

Yes. And that chapter happens to be where one can easily find the first blatant factual error in the book: see if you can identify it

[Devout Centrist]

This wall, if ever completed, will end up being way over budget, delayed, and could potentially lead to thousands protesting along the border. The first two will likely balloon very quickly.

[The_Doctor]

LOL ag, have you read "Why Nations Fail?" Nogales is prominently menioned in the beginning.

Yes. And that chapter happens to be where one can easily find the first blatant factual error in the book: see if you can identify it

I'll check it out later today (I don't have access to the book atm) and report back in this thread. It's great book, by the way.

[ag]

This wall, if ever completed, will end up being way over budget, delayed, and could potentially lead to thousands protesting along the border. The first two will likely balloon very quickly.

Actually, there are better things then protests. The wall, unless it is built well within the US (which would require huge land requisitions within the US: I am sure the locals will be happy) will block off US ability to observe and react to goings on the other side. An effective wall needs depth. Well, Mexico has no incentive or desire to help here. With border cooperation programs gone, I would just open our external borders to both people and all sorts of transit commodities and let the nature take its course.

[Confused Democrat]

This is all bark and no action.

Let's not forget what an EO actually is. An EO is just a piece of paper that gives instructions to government agencies and departments about how to operate in a certain area. It's not like he can actually appropriate funds to build a border wall; he'll need to work with congress.

Apparently this EO will require DHS to redirect already appropriated funds to the construction of his "beautiful wall." Is that even legal?

Also, per The NYT:

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This wall is going to cost anywhere between 9-14 billion dollars.

[Hermit For Peace]

So dumb. So Dumpf.

All we can do is lol!

[ApatheticAustrian]

you can either tackle the debt or pauperize the people AND build the wall.

[ag]

you can either tackle the debt or pauperize the people AND build the wall.

Listen. This is just a major infrastructure project the way he understands it. He is a proper Keynesian: he simply wants to bury the money in the ditch and let people mine it. That in the process he can talk racist shyte is an additional advantage, of course.

[Meclazine for Israel]

From CNN

"Officials said Trump would wait until later in the week to take action on visas and refugees, potentially as early as Thursday.

An order being prepared for Trump's signature includes the drastic measure of suspending the entire refugee program for four months in an attempt to gauge which country's migrants pose the least risk for US national security. A program for admitting Syrian refugees, who are fleeing civil war and a humanitarian crisis, would be ended indefinitely."

Donald is like a GI Joe action figure making America great again.

[Mr. Morden]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-25/urgent-official-mexico-s-president-considering-scrapping-us-trip

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[mencken]

He can order it all he wants but he can't appropriate funds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006

[ag]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-25/urgent-official-mexico-s-president-considering-scrapping-us-trip

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The only way EPN can make this trip without seriously endangering his chances of finishing his term is if straight from Washington he flies to Beijing.

[Lincoln Republican]

I'm not saying I am in favor of a wall, as a matter of fact, I have argued against it, but think of all the jobs this wall will create.

[Xing]

And this won't even stop illegal immigration, because these funny things called planes exist, and people can still cross the border legally and then overstay their visa. I guess any spending at all for the arts, humanities, and education is wasteful, but spending billions on a plan intending to keep "those people" out (even if it's ineffective) is worthwhile.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I'm not saying I am in favor of a wall, as a matter of fact, I have argued against it, but think of all the jobs this wall will create.

Building camps to concentrate Muslims would also create jobs.

[JJC]

And this won't even stop illegal immigration, because these funny things called planes exist, and people can still cross the border legally and then overstay their visa. I guess any spending at all for the arts, humanities, and education is wasteful, but spending billions on a plan intending to keep "those people" out (even if it's ineffective) is worthwhile.

I do not think that +20 million foreign nationals are going to illegally cross the border via plane, bro.

And yes, a wall will absolutely DRASTICALLY reduce illegal immigration, as well as human trafficking and drug cartels. When Hungary built a fence - not wall - fence - illegal immigration dropped by 95%. Walls work. That's why they exist. That's why homes have them. Walls are physical barriers to entry. Children understand this.

And yes, spending money to secure our borders is absolutely well worth the tax payer money. Even ignoring the catastrophic affect illegal immigration has had on our economy and jobs (and social programs), think about how much cleaner our streets will be when the huge amount of drugs that cross the border is stopped. How many teenagers would live past there teens because of less drugs on the streets? How many families would not be destroyed, neighborhoods ripped apart. Crimes not committed. Open borders is the drug cartel's dream come true.

And Mexico loves it because they can successfully deport their poverty to us. And democrats like it because they want to import millions of new voters. Money and power. That's all its been about. Screw the American people who suffer the consequences. These yokels don't have millions to donate after all.

You're not righteous. You're continuing the support of human misery. 

[JJC]

I'm not saying I am in favor of a wall, as a matter of fact, I have argued against it, but think of all the jobs this wall will create.

Building camps to concentrate Muslims would also create jobs.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

And this won't even stop illegal immigration, because these funny things called planes exist, and people can still cross the border legally and then overstay their visa. I guess any spending at all for the arts, humanities, and education is wasteful, but spending billions on a plan intending to keep "those people" out (even if it's ineffective) is worthwhile.

I do not think that +20 million foreign nationals are going to illegally cross the border via plane, bro.

And yes, a wall will absolutely DRASTICALLY reduce illegal immigration, as well as human trafficking and drug cartels. When Hungary built a fence - not wall - fence - illegal immigration dropped by 95%. Walls work. That's why they exist. That's why homes have them. Walls are physical barriers to entry. Children understand this.

And yes, spending money to secure our borders is absolutely well worth the tax payer money. Even ignoring the catastrophic affect illegal immigration has had on our economy and jobs (and social programs), think about how much cleaner our streets will be when the huge amount of drugs that cross the border is stopped. How many teenagers would live past there teens because of less drugs on the streets? How many families would not be destroyed, neighborhoods ripped apart. Crimes not committed. Open borders is the drug cartel's dream come true.

And Mexico loves it because they can successfully deport their poverty to us. And democrats like it because they want to import millions of new voters. Money and power. That's all its been about. Screw the American people who suffer the consequences. These yokels don't have millions to donate after all.

You're not righteous. You're continuing the support of human misery. 

This is an interesting diatribe. It's too bad that it's totally out of whack with reality: border crossings are at all-time lows, there's no evidence to suggest that immigration reduces wage levels for native-born Americans or increases levels of inequality, immigration has almost certainly contributed to America's relatively impressive economic performance, immigration is why our entitlement programs are in solid shape going forward (were in solid shape?) etc.

You can scapegoat immigrants and decide to deport them because you disagree with their political views but it's best to be honest and say "I want to deport immigrants because they're potential Democrats and not for any real reason".