Trump announces 20% tariff on all Mexican imports to pay for wall

[Badger]

So, In Trumps defense(Oh god), Spicer was referring to a border adjustment tax that congressional republicans have already gotten behind. It's not actually a 20% import tax.

What's the difference. Serious question

[Badger]

Great, now we end up paying more for imported products just to finance a dumb wall that will do nothing. On top of this, we're risking a trade war, which would inflate prices further and hurt the economy.

Meanwhile, the Tweedledees are thinking that they're "punishing" Mexico, while actual Americans are having their money and financial stability siphoned for said dumb wall.

10/10

This is what always happens, without fail, whenever people turn to nationalism. Again and again and again. Yet, as we see, many people never ever learn anything.

Have you ever tried pointing this out to anyone on Facebook or social media? They just basically call you a brainwashed commie. Like this sh**t is legit frightening.

I've been one of those people. I was part of the alt-right back in its earlier days. I know what these people are and how they think; I also know how sick they actually are. They need a good education (which they call "indoctrination") and interacting with people from cultures outside their little bubble (and no, claiming "I live in a multicultural area" isn't truly interacting with people from other cultures).

Could you expound more on this? I'd be curious to get your opinion on what's happening with the alt-right and its takeover of the Republican Party.

It's really pretty clear. 30%+ of the party's base is full on anti-fact.

Judging from both the blue avatars and allies on the Forum, as well as the junk coming out of the White House, I'd saddly say it's a solid majority.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

So, In Trumps defense(Oh god), Spicer was referring to a border adjustment tax that congressional republicans have already gotten behind. It's not actually a 20% import tax.

What's the difference. Serious question

I can't confirm whether there is or is not an import tax, but the former is quite a disastrous policy that will prevent the deductability of costs not incurred in the US. Many low-margin businesses will go under fast as written since they charge very low prices - If Wal-Mart buys something from China for $1.5 and sells it for $2, the tax is now on the full $2 sale (less wages, etc.). It's simply unsustainable. If it starts getting manufactured for $2.50 in the US, they can deduct the full $2.50, but need to charge a much higher price...you get the picture.

I was under the impression that the tariff was in addition to this, but that might be too outrageous.

[Santander]

So, In Trumps defense(Oh god), Spicer was referring to a border adjustment tax that congressional republicans have already gotten behind. It's not actually a 20% import tax.

What's the difference. Serious question

I can't confirm whether there is or is not an import tax, but the former is quite a disastrous policy that will prevent the deductability of costs not incurred in the US. Many low-margin businesses will go under fast as written since they charge very low prices - If Wal-Mart buys something from China for $1.5 and sells it for $2, the tax is now on the full $2 sale (less wages, etc.). It's simply unsustainable. If it starts getting manufactured for $2.50 in the US, they can deduct the full $2.50, but need to charge a much higher price...you get the picture.

I was under the impression that the tariff was in addition to this, but that might be too outrageous.

Not to mention it does away with the interest tax shield. The Ryan tax plan is really quite terrifying.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

So, In Trumps defense(Oh god), Spicer was referring to a border adjustment tax that congressional republicans have already gotten behind. It's not actually a 20% import tax.

What's the difference. Serious question

I can't confirm whether there is or is not an import tax, but the former is quite a disastrous policy that will prevent the deductability of costs not incurred in the US. Many low-margin businesses will go under fast as written since they charge very low prices - If Wal-Mart buys something from China for $1.5 and sells it for $2, the tax is now on the full $2 sale (less wages, etc.). It's simply unsustainable. If it starts getting manufactured for $2.50 in the US, they can deduct the full $2.50, but need to charge a much higher price...you get the picture.

I was under the impression that the tariff was in addition to this, but that might be too outrageous.

Not to mention it does away with the interest tax shield. The Ryan tax plan is really quite terrifying.

Yeah, I initially listed the whole bit about cash flow taxation too but decided to take it out to keep it simple. The flow of funds is about to be turned on its head. Traders beware.

[KingSweden]

I was listening to an interesting discussion that Bill Kristol had with this Harvard professor, that went on for about 90 minutes. One thing the professor said, is that when it came to jobs in the US, NAFTA was about a wash. What really hurt US manufacturing, was China joining the WTO.

So congratulations Donald. Beyond the human suffering that you will be causing, both in Mexico (jobs lost), and in the US (also jobs lost as companies that rely on Mexican imports for some of the input of their products to remain competitive are hurt, but also yes, higher prices for US consumers on some items), you have made a major first step in hurting the US economy. I think it might be time to cut back the percentage of my retirement money that is in stocks.

Man, this guy is such a dangerous demagogue. And erratic, and undisciplined.

I guess the silver lining, is that I assume that Congress will not agree to this insanity. But perhaps assuming sanity is itself rather reckless these days. It may be that making Mexico the whipping boy for stagnation/decline of the standard of living of those who used to earn way above the minimum wage, and now earn the minimum wage, or not much above it, or are not in the workforce at all, all of which Mexico has next to nothing to do with, is irresistible.

There's a convincing argument to be made that inviting China into the WTO is what soured so many Rust Belt voters on Clinton rather than NAFTA, it's just that nAFTA is an easier whipping horse

[RINO Tom]

Great, now we end up paying more for imported products just to finance a dumb wall that will do nothing. On top of this, we're risking a trade war, which would inflate prices further and hurt the economy.

Meanwhile, the Tweedledees are thinking that they're "punishing" Mexico, while actual Americans are having their money and financial stability siphoned for said dumb wall.

10/10

This is what always happens, without fail, whenever people turn to nationalism. Again and again and again. Yet, as we see, many people never ever learn anything.

Have you ever tried pointing this out to anyone on Facebook or social media? They just basically call you a brainwashed commie. Like this sh**t is legit frightening.

I've been one of those people. I was part of the alt-right back in its earlier days. I know what these people are and how they think; I also know how sick they actually are. They need a good education (which they call "indoctrination") and interacting with people from cultures outside their little bubble (and no, claiming "I live in a multicultural area" isn't truly interacting with people from other cultures).

Could you expound more on this? I'd be curious to get your opinion on what's happening with the alt-right and its takeover of the Republican Party.

Okay now...  I will not waste my time spending my whole day responding back and forth to this to people who desperately want to think of all Republicans as stupid, racist rubes from West Virginia to validate their own less-than-stellar daily lives, but this is hyperbole at its best.  Takeover?  Trump has openly disavowed the Alt-Right, and even if you count his (one) adviser who could be classified as such, I think the Republican Senate caucus (NONE of which could accurately be described as Alt-Right, especially its leadership), Republican governors (NONE of which could accurately be described as Alt-Right, especially its leadership) or the Republican House caucus (I don't know every individual member, but let's be real here: the leadership most certainly isn't even close to Alt-Right, and anyone who could be remotely classified as such would be in the tiny minority) far outnumber such people.

The only threads posted on this forum about these subjects are by red avatars with a narrative, friend.  They jump all over Trump for anything that can help further their narrative of what the GOP "has become," but we never see articles talking about Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell reiterating publicly that the GOP is against torture, do we?

Much less any topics about how Madonna literally said she thinks about BLOWING UP THE WHITE HOUSE or Chelsea Handler saying she doesn't respect Melania Trump at all and wouldn't have her on her show because, "What would she talk about?!  She can barely speak English."

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Much less any topics about how Madonna literally said she thinks about BLOWING UP THE WHITE HOUSE or Chelsea Handler saying she doesn't respect Melania Trump at all and wouldn't have her on her show because, "What would she talk about?!  She can barely speak English."

I don't know who Chelsea Handler is but she's a horrible human being.  I hope she leaves the country with the rest of her ilk.

[Santander]

Let's dispel with the fiction that the alt-right is an actual movement. It is basically a loose collection of Internet trolls.

Richard Spencer is the leader of a small white nationalist (not white supremacist or neo-Nazi) faction within the alt-right that has aligned itself with Kevin McDonald, Peter Brimelow, Jared Taylor, etc. Many of these people have legitimate concerns about the cultural integrity of Western civilization, but most of them, Spencer included, are horribly misguided when it comes to the causes and solutions for the West's decline. Spencer's humiliation at the hands of Roland Martin is evidence of this. They don't identify with either party, and they only generally vote for Republicans because they perceive them to be somewhat less anti-white than the Democrats.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Much less any topics about how Madonna literally said she thinks about BLOWING UP THE WHITE HOUSE or Chelsea Handler saying she doesn't respect Melania Trump at all and wouldn't have her on her show because, "What would she talk about?!  She can barely speak English."

I don't know who Chelsea Handler is but she's a horrible human being.  I hope she leaves the country with the rest of her ilk.

The least funny person to be on television - maybe ever. That may be the funniest thing she ever said, and it's clearly out of line.

[tallguy23]

My friend said his shoe business (which manufactures in Mexico) would go out of business with a 20% tariff. This is a bad idea.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Good. Let's squeeze them dry.

When you start having to pay $10 for a gallon of milk, let us know how you feel.

This is a fcking stupid idea and you'd have to be totally illiterate on economics to think otherwise.

now I'm against this kind of thing as much as anybody, but why would milk triple in price?


and now that everybody is against tariffs, can we maybe get rid of all the stupid ones we have now?

Tongue-partly-in-cheek.  I don't know how much milk would go up in price, but it was expensive enough in the state I lived most of my life (as with, well, everything else) and I'd rather not have to experience even higher prices.  I'm not a fan of our current trade deals, but protectionism is a dumb idea and I would hope that our Mexico haters have some sense to realize that this would backfire on them.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Could you expound more on this? I'd be curious to get your opinion on what's happening with the alt-right and its takeover of the Republican Party.

Okay now...  I will not waste my time spending my whole day responding back and forth to this to people who desperately want to think of all Republicans as stupid, racist rubes from West Virginia to validate their own less-than-stellar daily lives, but this is hyperbole at its best.

Yes, I noticed this was a characterization you had an axe to grind with on multiple other occasions. Can't say I blame you either, I also tend to get incensed with the constant stereotyping of Democrats from obnoxious simpletons whose thinking mostly consists in terms of hackneyed strawmen, (you know the type, one who utilizes "libtard" as a standard putdown) so I can relate. I was never of the opinion that ignorant hicks were what all Republicans were, they are merely one faction of your party. Don't worry, I acknowledge we have some real "winners" on my side of the aisle, too.

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First of all, when the hell have Trump's words been worth anything? Using what Trump says as a key to understanding what he actually believes is a terrible way to start off any argument. Secondly, I don't actually think Trump is truly "alt-right," he has no ideology other than self worship, but he certainly has no qualms with bolstering off of whatever group is willing to provide him support either. Third, he's certainly crafting an environment far more favorable for alt-right rhetoric to flourish and expand its influence. Fourth, regarding Bannon, I'm not even sure "alt-right" truly encapsulates the extent of his depravity; he comes across as a brutish, nasty man who wishes to destroy the system currently in place simply to revel in the act of destruction.

But I take your point, the alt-right has yet to actually fulfill a true hijacking of the Republican Party, but what's not up for dispute is the growing popularity of white nationalism within its base. Trump ran a campaign of which the primary theme was the identity politics of white grievances, and won. There were a dozen other standard establishment Republicans the base could have chosen from if level-headed fiscal conservatism was really what they cared about, and instead the plurality of your base emphatically told those "cuckservatives" to go pound grass. They wanted the man who served as an amplifier of the most unsavory elements within the GOP; the race-baiting, the misogyny, the xenophobia, the unbridled Caesarism of a verbal pugilist who speaks on a level geared towards resonating with the most uneducated, ignorant, lowest common denominator of American society. That was who they decided to elect, the man who's appeal affirmed all the worst stereotypes Democrats had lobbed at Republicans over the years.

Does that mean all Republicans automatically fit said stereotypes? Of course not, but you're fooling yourself if you think more moderate views like yours are going to be what people associate the Republican Party with for the next four years. Trump is the current figurehead of your party, whether you like it or not, and he's already having an impact on its platform. If you think the GOP will manage to inoculate itself from the broader shifts his presidency represents, you are sorely mistaken. The base has already undergone dramatic reversals of some if its former positions that used to be staples, such as its support of free trade and disapproval of Russia, as well as several other policy positions, and these reversals permeate well beyond Trump's core base that fueled his initial rise. Donald Trump ascended a power vacuum created by a disconnect between the Republican base and its establishment, which provides ample ground for him to remold Republican opinions on several classic stances. We're already witnessing this right now.

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Which would be another instance where the establishment is misaligned with the base, as the majority of GOP voters support it.

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I agree with you, Democrats need to do a better job choosing which celebrities they decide to use as spokespeople for their message.