When DID "life" begin?
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  When DID "life" begin?
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Author Topic: When DID "life" begin?  (Read 2930 times)
°Leprechaun
tmcusa2
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« on: January 27, 2017, 10:39:10 AM »

Human life that is. Was there a time when a nonhuman gave birth to a human? Is such an event the only way to answer the title question? If there was such an event, when did it occur?

In the future, will a human give birth to a superior species?
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snowguy716
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2017, 06:02:50 PM »

It's a continuum.  And just like generations, you could only try to define the first humans after the fact.  The same will be true for the next species.
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Figueira
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2017, 06:39:48 PM »

I would say that human life began when populations of the genus Homo became distinct enough to be considered its own genus based on modern conceptions of what a genus is. Since definitions of genera in the present are somewhat arbitrary, it's impossible to pinpoint a specific time, but around 2.8 million years ago would be a good estimate. No, there was never a time when a non-human gave birth to a human.
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FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2017, 07:05:01 PM »

When Creation threw off its shackles and decided to be garbage.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2017, 08:26:03 PM »

When Creation threw off its shackles and decided to be garbage.

November 2016? Wink
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2017, 01:59:48 PM »

Dinosaurs were here when the continents were connected and they came from Africa across to South America.

Ice Ages happens and mammals began to form and dwarfism from a chimpanzee happen"per darwin." Lucy, a black woman came alive in Africa. And the cave man came from continent of Europe.
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muon2
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 05:09:20 AM »

I think the modern answer to the question in the OP comes by reframing it this way, "When did the last common ancestor of all living humans live?" It defines what biologists call the clade of humans. The dominant view among biologists would place the answer at around 200,000 years ago.
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Enduro
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 03:28:45 PM »

4004 BC, probably.

I mean, I wasn't there.
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ExtremeRepublican
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 05:36:53 PM »

Conception Smiley
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 08:04:17 PM »

About 200,000 years ago, nonhumans gave birth to the first humans, yes. And one day, we will give birth to whatever species we are to "evolve" into. When will it happen? Only god knows, as Macroevolution happens through his voice, and he chooses when to speak.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 09:43:47 PM »

Approx. 160,000 years ago or so.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/education/introduction-human-evolution


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Evolution is a slow process, which is why so many people are skeptical of it who do not read scientific/archaeological literature.

The Earth has been here about 4.5 billion years, the first life appearing about 4 billion years ago, give or take. It's a loooooooong time until human beings start showing up in the rock layers.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2017, 11:12:52 AM »

Species are pretty hard to define. There are scientific debates over how broad or narrow one should define it, and when one species transitions into another.
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muon2
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2017, 01:56:50 PM »

Species are pretty hard to define. There are scientific debates over how broad or narrow one should define it, and when one species transitions into another.

That's why modern biology prefers to speak of clades - a group of all organisms that share a specific common ancestor. It gets away from the older definitions of species and removes the less important biological question of where one species ended and another begins. It replaces the definition with the more important question of how much genetic material is shared between two organisms and what other organisms have similar baseline genetic material. Often a species is a clade, but there are clades made up of multiple species and clades within a species.
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Figueira
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2017, 09:40:38 PM »

I think the modern answer to the question in the OP comes by reframing it this way, "When did the last common ancestor of all living humans live?" It defines what biologists call the clade of humans. The dominant view among biologists would place the answer at around 200,000 years ago.

I don't this makes sense on the micro scale, with sexual reproduction involved. The last common ancestor of all living humans lived very recently, considering that they weren't the only ancestor of all iliving humans. Wikipedia says that the last common ancestor of all living humans might have beeen as recently as 3000 years ago, but it would be ridiculous to say that that person was the first human.
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muon2
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 10:33:40 PM »

I think the modern answer to the question in the OP comes by reframing it this way, "When did the last common ancestor of all living humans live?" It defines what biologists call the clade of humans. The dominant view among biologists would place the answer at around 200,000 years ago.

I don't this makes sense on the micro scale, with sexual reproduction involved. The last common ancestor of all living humans lived very recently, considering that they weren't the only ancestor of all iliving humans. Wikipedia says that the last common ancestor of all living humans might have beeen as recently as 3000 years ago, but it would be ridiculous to say that that person was the first human.

I understood that the MRCA paper that set it at 3000 years ago was one primarily based on statistical modeling assuming a certain rate of interbreeding. The older dates refers to the genetic and female MRCA. In 2013 those dates were generally between 100K and 200K years ago.

I understand that when lines die out the MRCA date moves forward in time. One could include all modern humans living and dead in the clade and that keeps the MRCA date fixed further back.

There's a lot of research currently debated about the potential interbreeding between humans and other homo populations like the Neanderthals and how that might affect the MRCA date. A clade with all of those populations can be defined, too.
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Figueira
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« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2017, 01:58:11 AM »

I think the modern answer to the question in the OP comes by reframing it this way, "When did the last common ancestor of all living humans live?" It defines what biologists call the clade of humans. The dominant view among biologists would place the answer at around 200,000 years ago.

I don't this makes sense on the micro scale, with sexual reproduction involved. The last common ancestor of all living humans lived very recently, considering that they weren't the only ancestor of all iliving humans. Wikipedia says that the last common ancestor of all living humans might have beeen as recently as 3000 years ago, but it would be ridiculous to say that that person was the first human.

I understood that the MRCA paper that set it at 3000 years ago was one primarily based on statistical modeling assuming a certain rate of interbreeding. The older dates refers to the genetic and female MRCA. In 2013 those dates were generally between 100K and 200K years ago.

I understand that when lines die out the MRCA date moves forward in time. One could include all modern humans living and dead in the clade and that keeps the MRCA date fixed further back.

There's a lot of research currently debated about the potential interbreeding between humans and other homo populations like the Neanderthals and how that might affect the MRCA date. A clade with all of those populations can be defined, too.

Sure, but I don't think using the MRCA to define "human" is a good idea, considering that there were individuals alive before the MRCA who were clearly human under any reasonable definition, and there was nothing unusual about the MRCA other than being, uh, very sexually active.
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muon2
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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2017, 08:13:06 AM »

I think the modern answer to the question in the OP comes by reframing it this way, "When did the last common ancestor of all living humans live?" It defines what biologists call the clade of humans. The dominant view among biologists would place the answer at around 200,000 years ago.

I don't this makes sense on the micro scale, with sexual reproduction involved. The last common ancestor of all living humans lived very recently, considering that they weren't the only ancestor of all iliving humans. Wikipedia says that the last common ancestor of all living humans might have beeen as recently as 3000 years ago, but it would be ridiculous to say that that person was the first human.

I understood that the MRCA paper that set it at 3000 years ago was one primarily based on statistical modeling assuming a certain rate of interbreeding. The older dates refers to the genetic and female MRCA. In 2013 those dates were generally between 100K and 200K years ago.

I understand that when lines die out the MRCA date moves forward in time. One could include all modern humans living and dead in the clade and that keeps the MRCA date fixed further back.

There's a lot of research currently debated about the potential interbreeding between humans and other homo populations like the Neanderthals and how that might affect the MRCA date. A clade with all of those populations can be defined, too.

Sure, but I don't think using the MRCA to define "human" is a good idea, considering that there were individuals alive before the MRCA who were clearly human under any reasonable definition, and there was nothing unusual about the MRCA other than being, uh, very sexually active.

I agree, which is why I would use the MRCA of all identified anatomically modern humans living and dead. A genome extracted from human remains from 45K years ago is a legitimate source for comparison to today's populations.
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°Leprechaun
tmcusa2
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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2017, 09:22:00 AM »

I think the modern answer to the question in the OP comes by reframing it this way, "When did the last common ancestor of all living humans live?" It defines what biologists call the clade of humans. The dominant view among biologists would place the answer at around 200,000 years ago.

I don't this makes sense on the micro scale, with sexual reproduction involved. The last common ancestor of all living humans lived very recently, considering that they weren't the only ancestor of all iliving humans. Wikipedia says that the last common ancestor of all living humans might have beeen as recently as 3000 years ago, but it would be ridiculous to say that that person was the first human.
I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Do believe that we have ancestors that
were "partially human"? That the difference between us and our nonhuman ancestors
is some sort of continuum? That the term "human" is somewhat arbitrary?
It could be similar to a "human's" life in the womb. "Life" doesn't actually begin
at one point in time, but is gradual and at sometime before birth the fetus becomes fully
human. Many people believe that it begins at birth. An alternate theory is that it happens
gradually. At conception the lifeform doesn't look human. Minutes before birth it does.
This seems very similar to human evolution. The "missing" links would be what you
might call partly human.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2017, 03:14:39 AM »
« Edited: February 22, 2017, 09:56:18 AM by Meclazine »

For humans, 200,000 years ago.

For dinosaurs, 220 Ma

For fish, 530 Ma

For bacteria, 3.8 Ba
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Cokeland Chastain
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2017, 09:33:58 AM »

When God created the Earth.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2017, 07:52:29 AM »
« Edited: February 21, 2017, 11:09:13 PM by Meclazine »


The Earth is 4.6 billion years old.

After billions of years of geological evolution of the Earth's crust, humans enter the equation in only the last 0.002% of the Earth's life.

The vast quantity of scientific literature on the history of the Earth provides a fascinating insight into what the world looked like when we were not around.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2017, 04:47:45 PM »

It is conceivable that Evolution did exist and it is conceivable that there is a God who Created things.  But, everything in the animal kingdom from the Dinosaurs, Birds, Ice Ages: created Mammals, Chimps, Primates, and Cave Man and then, Humans is genetically related to each other, scientifically,
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The Puppeteer
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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2021, 10:36:15 PM »

The day I was born. I can't really prove whether anything else is real or not so I'll just stick with that.
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