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| | |-+  How have your views on abortion changed over the years?
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Question: ?
More pro-choice now   -37 (34.9%)
More pro-life now   -36 (34%)
No change   -33 (31.1%)
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Total Voters: 106

Author Topic: How have your views on abortion changed over the years?  (Read 2276 times)
New_Conservative
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« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2017, 10:05:07 pm »
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Option 1 for me.  When I was in high school, I favored outlawing it in most cases.
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« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2017, 10:05:18 pm »
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So, was there anyone who wasn't disgusted the first time they heard of abortion?

I was horrified when I first heard about abortion. Then I was horrified by hearing the stories of women who were forced to carry out a pregnancy against their will. It must be nice to live in a simple world when you see only half of the complexity of reality.
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« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2017, 10:19:33 pm »
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I should mention--a bit after the fact, it seems--that there's someone I respect very much who has a "don't legislate morality"-esque position on this, but in her case it makes more sense and is a bit more consequent than it usually does or is since she's an anarcho-socialist who wants pretty much every issue under the sun to be devolved to the commons, civil society, social norms, professional ethics, and so forth. Frankly I think this position is even more unmanageably utopian than my own but I think she holds it for the right reasons.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 10:22:40 pm by Night on the Galactic Mass Pike »Logged



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« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2017, 11:30:42 am »
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Decided I was moderately pro-life rather than moderately pro-choice in April 2009.
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« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2017, 10:53:52 pm »
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When I first heard of it(My age was probably in the single digits), I just though "IT'S A BABY" and opposed abortion. After a while, I was pro-choice but it wasn't a priority issue(not that it was unimportant). Now, I consider anti-abortion things to be monstrous.

It must take a lot of rationalizing to support what is so intuitively murder. 

Understanding human biology = rationalization. Of course, bypassing all science to BS that "abortion is never necessary to save a woman's life" totally isn't

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Usually, our instant/gut reactions are right!

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http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

Of course a bastard who opposes the basic right of gay and trans people to be who they are would say such a thing.
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Green Line
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« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2017, 10:56:02 pm »
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My views have not changed very much.  What has changed is my views of political parties and politicians.  I am much more cynical now.  Sadly, ignorance is bliss.
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Justice TJ
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« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2017, 11:08:36 pm »
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Not really. You may be able to drum up some convoluted scenario involving abortion that my junior high self may have been "pro-choice" on that I would  be "pro-life" on today. But that's about it.

Apart from the buzzwords, I would try to ban abortion except to save the life of the mother.

My views have not changed very much.  What has changed is my views of political parties and politicians.  I am much more cynical now.  Sadly, ignorance is bliss.

That's probably a healthy shift. We ought never to make idols out of our politicians or party. Hold on to what is good in your own life first and try to make the small patch of world around you better. If we all did that, our politics would follow in time. Too often we try to do it in the wrong order and think if only the right person got elected all problems would go away, including the one this thread is about. That's one good thing about Trump: it has made some fraction of the "religious right" (generally the non-crazy ones) wake up to the reality that morality was never supposed to be about winning elections in the first place. Granted the word "morality" is probably about the one world less popular than the word "politicians" right now, but that's an example of how we've got our work cut out for us.
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« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2017, 11:11:50 pm »
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Option 1. I changed my mind (from pro-life to pro-choice) when I read in a newspaper about an attorney who argued that if a fetus is an independent life with rights of its own, then putting a pregnant woman in jail is depriving a fetus of liberty without a fair trial.
Down through the years, I have also found it rather ironic that so many pro-lifers are so sure that "abortion is murder," yet they do not want to impose any punishment on a woman who asks to get an abortion.

However, I am NOT in favor of Roe v. Wade as an interpretation of the Constitution. Roe was not an interpretation of the Constitution at all. That Supreme Court decision must be overturned in order to restore a correct understanding of what the Constitution means.
From Justice White's dissenting opinion in Roe:
I find nothing in the language or history of the Constitution to support the Court's judgment. The Court simply fashions and announces a new constitutional right for pregnant women and, with scarcely any reason or authority for its action, invests that right with sufficient substance to override most existing state abortion statutes. The upshot is that the people and the legislatures of the 50 States are constitutionally disentitled to weigh the relative importance of the continued existence and development of the fetus, on the one hand, against a spectrum of possible impacts on the woman, on the other hand. As an exercise of raw judicial power, the Court perhaps has authority to do what it does today; but, in my view, its judgment is an improvident and extravagant exercise of the power of judicial review that the Constitution extends to this Court.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 11:14:51 pm by MarkD »Logged

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States should have clear guidelines what laws they cannot pass, and the federal courts should have far less discretion in choosing what laws to strike down. Take away from the federal courts the power to define liberty and the power to define equality. Those are legislative powers and should be in the hands of legislators. Rewrite Section 1 of the 14th to make its meaning narrower and clearer.
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« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2017, 03:27:04 pm »
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I guess I've always been (more or less) in the "pro-choice" camp but I increasingly find the libertarian-esque language of "choice" off-putting and I also have come to realize (based on discussions with people like TJ, for example) the fact that the moral sense of right and wrong that (most) people have is neither dictated by evolving notions of Progress nor rational (lol) interpretations of empirical data - nor should it be.

Moreover, I now realize that people who genuinely believe that abortion is murder aren't necessarily heartless misogynistic troglodytes, by any means; and consequently - especially considering just how incredibly sensitive moral debates over such intimate matters as the human (specifically, female human) body, the family, and children are - there will probably never be any resolution to this issue (and if there were, what would that say about the state of the fundamentally subjective nature of humanity? Would we really want to live in a world where everyone agreed on everything??).
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« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2017, 02:58:54 pm »
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well, i answered more pro-life. but that's definitely fluctuated over the years. i did lie about some of my views for entertainment (really trolling) when i first joined the forum around 2007. but i was genuinely much more pro-choice then. kind of a stereotypical atheist really.
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« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2017, 03:04:58 pm »
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always have been "pro-choice" but now....contrary to my teenage years....i don't view abortion enemies as bigots but caring people with a different worldview on a matter which is even more important for them than for me.
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AverroŽs
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« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2017, 05:12:03 pm »
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I'm more likely to justify abortion in terms of the language of public health rather than by talking about bodily autonomy.

Substantively, my views have not shifted all that much, although my reasons for holding them have. That is, I am more concerned with creating conditions for better physical and mental health, and I've seen a lot to convince me that there are dire health consequences for women and newborns alike when women are prohibited from making their own decisions about whether to terminate a pregnancy.

There are also obvious enforcement issues with making abortion legal with exceptions for health. And I don't trust physicians to act as responsible gatekeepers. There's plenty of evidence that physicians are not good at communicating with their patients in general and additional evidence that they tend to be particularly poor at communicating with female patients.

Oh, and I've had a clarifying realization: Either you accept that the sexual revolution happened and make abortion available to women at least within the first trimester, or you embark on a futile and destructive program to roll it back.

It's the people who want have it both ways who most confuse and upset me. I don't understand how someone can believe that casual sex is fine, but abortion is not. At least not if you support full equality for women.

We also have plenty of men who want a world in which the sexual revolution has happened for men but not for women. These people are, needless to say, deplorable. (Madonna–whore complex, anyone?)
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Justice TJ
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« Reply #87 on: March 20, 2017, 07:36:55 pm »
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We also have plenty of men who want a world in which the sexual revolution has happened for men but not for women. These people are, needless to say, deplorable. (MadonnaĖwhore complex, anyone?)

^This is an important point (although it is only tangentially related to abortion) that is lost on a lot of folks who view women as whores but men as studs for sleeping around. I'd (of course) take it a step further and balk at the idea of expecting fidelity on the part of a woman while the man uses pornography.

Also the way pop culture portrays men as lazy sex-obsessed idiots while women actually run everything is not particularly helpful.
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« Reply #88 on: March 20, 2017, 08:11:46 pm »
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Also the way pop culture portrays men as lazy sex-obsessed idiots while women actually run everything is not particularly helpful.
Take out the lazy and it's true.
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« Reply #89 on: March 20, 2017, 08:26:03 pm »
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Also the way pop culture portrays men as lazy sex-obsessed idiots while women actually run everything is not particularly helpful.
Take out the lazy and it's true.

I have to agree, but the key thing to remember is that it doesn't have to be so, especially since culture shapes society about as much as the other way around.
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Our numbers are dwindling. Our words are confused.
Some of them have been twisted by the enemy
until they can no longer be recognized.

Now what is wrong, or false, in what we have said?
Just some parts, or everything?
On whom can we still rely? Are we survivors, cast
away by the current? Will we be left behind,
no longer understanding anyone and being understood by no one?
Must we rely on luck?

This is what you ask. Expect
no answer but your own.


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« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2017, 11:10:33 pm »
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I've become more pro-life. I've never been a moralist, and don't believe in government intervention in many cases (I was for a period an anarchocapitalist of sorts), my problem with abortion, and the death penalty has more to do with what I believe is a growing problem in our society in general. An increase in hubris.
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« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2017, 11:19:14 pm »
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Still very much pro-life but I think i've cooled the rhetoric on the issue. It's still a prominent issue for me in GOP primaries but not in general elections.
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« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2017, 12:09:58 am »
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     I was pro-life until I was about 14. Then I thought about it and I realized I held that view for a really inane reason. I made an about-face and have been pro-choice ever since.
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« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2017, 11:20:09 am »
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I switched back and forth between "should I care or should I not?" Have been relatively apathetic on the issue over the years.
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« Reply #94 on: March 21, 2017, 12:28:30 pm »
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Far more pro-choice, I used to favor a complete ban without exceptions AND prosecuting women and doctors who got/provided abortions.
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