How would Jim Webb have done against Donald Trump?

[Deblano]

These people voted for Hillary freaking Clinton. I see no reason why they would refuse to vote for Webb, especially since he would likely move to the left during the primary and the general.

The entire reason Webb ran was because he felt the Democratic Party was focusing too much on identity politics and was neglecting the WWC vote that had been the party's bedrock for most of the 20th century. I don't see him moving to the left in order to win the primary, as far as I see the "left" defined as Sanders/Warren progressivism.

He does seem to be relatively left-wing populist on economics, especially considering how he touted his support for Unions.

[RaphaelDLG]

These people voted for Hillary freaking Clinton. I see no reason why they would refuse to vote for Webb, especially since he would likely move to the left during the primary and the general.

The entire reason Webb ran was because he felt the Democratic Party was focusing too much on identity politics and was neglecting the WWC vote that had been the party's bedrock for most of the 20th century. I don't see him moving to the left in order to win the primary, as far as I see the "left" defined as Sanders/Warren progressivism.

I do think he would have moved to left on race and social issues, though, to hold the Democratic party together (Webb his far to the right on these issues relative to the rest of the Democratic caucus).  I would be really interested in hearing how he pieced together the Democratic coalition after all of his borderline racist quotes about black people and the confederacy etc resurface. 

I think he would be a really strong candidate to run against Trump in the rural areas that swung heavily from Obama to Trump; it depends on how much of the minority vote turns out vs hemmorages in the cities.  He needs to pick, like, Cory freaking Booker as his VP or something.

[White Trash]

These people voted for Hillary freaking Clinton. I see no reason why they would refuse to vote for Webb, especially since he would likely move to the left during the primary and the general.

The entire reason Webb ran was because he felt the Democratic Party was focusing too much on identity politics and was neglecting the WWC vote that had been the party's bedrock for most of the 20th century. I don't see him moving to the left in order to win the primary, as far as I see the "left" defined as Sanders/Warren progressivism.

I do think he would have moved to left on race and social issues, though, to hold the Democratic party together (Webb his far to the right on these issues relative to the rest of the Democratic caucus).  I would be really interested in hearing how he pieced together the Democratic coalition after all of his borderline racist quotes about black people and the confederacy etc resurface. 

I think he would be a really strong candidate to run against Trump in the rural areas that swung heavily from Obama to Trump; it depends on how much of the minority vote turns out vs hemmorages in the cities.  He needs to pick, like, Cory freaking Booker as his VP or something.

He defended the Confederate flag and criticized affirmative action. Don't you think this is stretching it a bit?

[RaphaelDLG]

These people voted for Hillary freaking Clinton. I see no reason why they would refuse to vote for Webb, especially since he would likely move to the left during the primary and the general.

The entire reason Webb ran was because he felt the Democratic Party was focusing too much on identity politics and was neglecting the WWC vote that had been the party's bedrock for most of the 20th century. I don't see him moving to the left in order to win the primary, as far as I see the "left" defined as Sanders/Warren progressivism.

I do think he would have moved to left on race and social issues, though, to hold the Democratic party together (Webb his far to the right on these issues relative to the rest of the Democratic caucus).  I would be really interested in hearing how he pieced together the Democratic coalition after all of his borderline racist quotes about black people and the confederacy etc resurface. 

I think he would be a really strong candidate to run against Trump in the rural areas that swung heavily from Obama to Trump; it depends on how much of the minority vote turns out vs hemmorages in the cities.  He needs to pick, like, Cory freaking Booker as his VP or something.

He defended the Confederate flag and criticized affirmative action. Don't you think this is stretching it a bit?

Personally I didn't really have a problem with the logic of his actual controversial statements on either of those two issues and I can't remember the other controversial stuff he said back in the 80s that got dredged up, so yeah, you're probably right.

It WOULD for sure be somewhat of a political obstacle, though.  Webb was a non-candidate in the primary during this cycle, and even then, these statements were brought up as a negative about him the few times he was on the radar.

[justfollowingtheelections]

Trump would have won the popular vote against Webb.

[Fuzzy Bear]

See, I don't get it.  Maybe I'm a slow learner.  But everyone here on "Red Avatar Atlas" has been telling me how awful Trump was, how he was/is a racist/misogynist/xenophobe/skid marked underwear user for so long that there was no way anyone in their right mind would vote third party to help Trump.  Even if it meant voting for Webb, who was against the Iraq War and supported the AHCA.  Are you saying that Trump isn't as bad as Jim Webb to the point where you'd vote 3rd party and "take THAT chance"?

Folks can't have it both ways.  Trump was either so awful that he needed to be stopped at all costs, or he's someone who needed to be awfulized because of his popularity.  Pick one.  But don't tell me Trump is a Fascist and then say, in the same breath, that folks should vote 3rd party because Webb is too yucky for their tastes.

[RaphaelDLG]

See, I don't get it.  Maybe I'm a slow learner.  But everyone here on "Red Avatar Atlas" has been telling me how awful Trump was, how he was/is a racist/misogynist/xenophobe/skid marked underwear user for so long that there was no way anyone in their right mind would vote third party to help Trump.  Even if it meant voting for Webb, who was against the Iraq War and supported the AHCA.  Are you saying that Trump isn't as bad as Jim Webb to the point where you'd vote 3rd party and "take THAT chance"?

Folks can't have it both ways.  Trump was either so awful that he needed to be stopped at all costs, or he's someone who needed to be awfulized because of his popularity.  Pick one.  But don't tell me Trump is a Fascist and then say, in the same breath, that folks should vote 3rd party because Webb is too yucky for their tastes.

I reskimmed the whole thread and I think literally nobody said that.  Everyone is just analyzing Webb's electoral chances, which ARE dicey because he is objectively a problematic candidate to the standard winning Democratic coalition in some ways. 

I personally would have EASILY voted for Webb over Trump, and I think pretty much all the Democrats in this thread would have too - it's just, will he get the right turnout among the right demographics to win.

[Fuzzy Bear]

See, I don't get it.  Maybe I'm a slow learner.  But everyone here on "Red Avatar Atlas" has been telling me how awful Trump was, how he was/is a racist/misogynist/xenophobe/skid marked underwear user for so long that there was no way anyone in their right mind would vote third party to help Trump.  Even if it meant voting for Webb, who was against the Iraq War and supported the AHCA.  Are you saying that Trump isn't as bad as Jim Webb to the point where you'd vote 3rd party and "take THAT chance"?

Folks can't have it both ways.  Trump was either so awful that he needed to be stopped at all costs, or he's someone who needed to be awfulized because of his popularity.  Pick one.  But don't tell me Trump is a Fascist and then say, in the same breath, that folks should vote 3rd party because Webb is too yucky for their tastes.

I reskimmed the whole thread and I think literally nobody said that.  Everyone is just analyzing Webb's electoral chances, which ARE dicey because he is objectively a problematic candidate to the standard winning Democratic coalition in some ways. 

I personally would have EASILY voted for Webb over Trump, and I think pretty much all the Democrats in this thread would have too - it's just, will he get the right turnout among the right demographics to win.

Nobody actually said this, but the screwing up of noses over Webb by some implies that.

If Trump was so bad, as bad as folks said, they'd have voted for Mitt Romney the Democrat.  Enthusiastically.  For John Kasich the Democrat.  Willingly. 

There's a logical implication that if you're a Democrat and would have to think about getting behind Webb, Trump couldn't be THAT bad.

[RFayette]

See, I don't get it.  Maybe I'm a slow learner.  But everyone here on "Red Avatar Atlas" has been telling me how awful Trump was, how he was/is a racist/misogynist/xenophobe/skid marked underwear user for so long that there was no way anyone in their right mind would vote third party to help Trump.  Even if it meant voting for Webb, who was against the Iraq War and supported the AHCA.  Are you saying that Trump isn't as bad as Jim Webb to the point where you'd vote 3rd party and "take THAT chance"?

Folks can't have it both ways.  Trump was either so awful that he needed to be stopped at all costs, or he's someone who needed to be awfulized because of his popularity.  Pick one.  But don't tell me Trump is a Fascist and then say, in the same breath, that folks should vote 3rd party because Webb is too yucky for their tastes.

I reskimmed the whole thread and I think literally nobody said that.  Everyone is just analyzing Webb's electoral chances, which ARE dicey because he is objectively a problematic candidate to the standard winning Democratic coalition in some ways.  

I personally would have EASILY voted for Webb over Trump, and I think pretty much all the Democrats in this thread would have too - it's just, will he get the right turnout among the right demographics to win.

Nobody actually said this, but the screwing up of noses over Webb by some implies that.

If Trump was so bad, as bad as folks said, they'd have voted for Mitt Romney the Democrat.  Enthusiastically.  For John Kasich the Democrat.  Willingly.  

There's a logical implication that if you're a Democrat and would have to think about getting behind Webb, Trump couldn't be THAT bad.

It's interesting to see that when push came to shove, there were quite a few Democrats in another thread who conceded that they preferred Trump to Pence.  This illustrates to me that for many of them, their comparisons to Hitler were not exactly sincere - if you literally thought Trump was the next Hitler, how could you not prefer him to Pence?

[impactreps]

Hillary Clinton's move to the left wasn't seen as authentic, and she was a more centrist candidate than Webb was. There would be no way he could try and move leftward without being seen as inauthentic.

[Beet]

I for one would prefer Pence over Trump, but I used to be one of those that thought Trump was better than a generic R. It makes sense since he's a less extreme economic conservative. I thought his Muslim ban stuff was just rhetoric and he'd never actually follow through on it. Pre-election, I admit I never gave Trump as close of a look as I should have. I was focused more on Hillary and her controversies. Post-election/inauguration, seeing the associations of the people in his inner circle, like Bannon and Miller, his policies in action, and his anti-democratic tendencies, have really confirmed the worst, IMO. Of course I would prefer Webb over Trump. Not only that, I think my party needs to move in the direction of more blue dogs like Webb, and moderate heavily on social issues, while becoming more populist on economic issues. However Trump is going to push so hard on xenophobia it's going to force Democrats to take a stand somewhat on social issues, but we can't lose sight of the larger goal which is to bring working class voters of all stripes back to the party.

[RaphaelDLG]

Yeah, I think pre-election there was some uncertainty about Trump and where he'd fall on entitlements, regulation, campaign finance, etc (not that much if you knew his history as a businessman).

Now, it's nakedly clear that he will 1) let Ryan and the rest gut medicare, medicaid, VA, etc and 2) is not at all serious about draining the swamp - in fact, the number of plutocrats and deregulators he's appointed to the cabinet is stunning.

On top of that, you have the downsides of Trump - an incompetent, deeply mentally ill individual with no empathy at the trigger.

EASILY Mike Pence over Trump.

[JoshPA]

He was the only democrat that could have beated trump.

[impactreps]

He was the only democrat that could have beated trump.

I disagree. Webb probably had more appeal to the average Trump voter than Clinton, but based on personality and style Trump would've crushed Webb. I think Bernie and Biden were the Dems' best chances against Trump.