So it begins...

[Associate Justice PiT]

It is a privilege to come to the United States, not a right. What happened to her might have been degrading but she didn't have to come into the United States when there are Canadian stores with the same toys and it probably would've been cheaper to not come to the US.

This is exactly why so many people worldwide have a very unfavorable opinion of America. You're not some heavenly kingdom of god which we all must beg to set our filthy feet on its divine soil. Also, what happened here was denying the freedom of movement on a religious basis. Stop trying to excuse your authoritarian regime because of partisanship.

This specific case, if the event happened as it is reported in the article, is clearly ridiculous.

However, on principle, I think it is in our best interest to not act like we owe anything to people of other countries when it comes to immigration policy. If America stands to benefit from that travel (such as in the case of Mexican immigration or a Canadian taking a shopping trip to Vermont), then we should be gracious hosts but if American interests are threatened by an immigration policy then we ought to have every right to protect ourselves.

We the people of the US guaranteed justice, domestic tranquility, common defence, general welfare, and the blessings of liberty to OURSELVES and OUR POSTERITY. We should be careful not to forget that.

I do think that compassion is very important and that it's inhumane to not help taking in some refugees, especially with as a country with such a huge population which can help quite a lot of people without being fazed, but I agree that if the amounts of immigrants or refugees are too big to handle, it's absolutely necessary to put the interests of your own citizens first.
But the notion that it's such a privilege to come into the US is one of the things that makes it much harder for me to defend America in arguments.

     In principle it applies to any country; nobody except its citizens and permanent residents has a right to enter the country. It just so happens that Americans have a lot more hubris about it than other people do.

[EnglishPete]

Or, at least, one would hope they'd have learned something. The worst fears of civil liberties advocates - the kind that we've been told are implausible and unreasonable for nearly two decades now - are now being realized.

If your fears have been based on stories like this woman's, ahem, 'eyewitness' account then perhaps it indicates that implausible and unreasonable are not inaccurate adjectives to use.

[RINO Tom]

It is a privilege to come to the United States, not a right. What happened to her might have been degrading but she didn't have to come into the United States when there are Canadian stores with the same toys and it probably would've been cheaper to not come to the US.

This is exactly why so many people worldwide have a very unfavorable opinion of America. You're not some heavenly kingdom of god which we all must beg to set our filthy feet on its divine soil. Also, what happened here was denying the freedom of movement on a religious basis. Stop trying to excuse your authoritarian regime because of partisanship.

This specific case, if the event happened as it is reported in the article, is clearly ridiculous.

However, on principle, I think it is in our best interest to not act like we owe anything to people of other countries when it comes to immigration policy. If America stands to benefit from that travel (such as in the case of Mexican immigration or a Canadian taking a shopping trip to Vermont), then we should be gracious hosts but if American interests are threatened by an immigration policy then we ought to have every right to protect ourselves.

We the people of the US guaranteed justice, domestic tranquility, common defence, general welfare, and the blessings of liberty to OURSELVES and OUR POSTERITY. We should be careful not to forget that.

I do think that compassion is very important and that it's inhumane to not help taking in some refugees, especially with as a country with such a huge population which can help quite a lot of people without being fazed, but I agree that if the amounts of immigrants or refugees are too big to handle, it's absolutely necessary to put the interests of your own citizens first.
But the notion that it's such a privilege to come into the US is one of the things that makes it much harder for me to defend America in arguments.

     In principle it applies to any country; nobody except its citizens and permanent residents has a right to enter the country. It just so happens that Americans have a lot more hubris about it than other people do.

Also so happens we are seemingly held to a standard other (specifically European countries) aren't sometimes.

[ApatheticAustrian]

Also so happens we are seemingly held to a standard other (specifically European countries) aren't sometimes.

3 points.

1) you are not.

2) "you" are the definition of freedom and those values have long separated you from all the other liberty-sceptical countries. ffs your country was founded to create a space without those sentiments.

3) you are not.


to my knowledge, no other western country has atm installed a general muslim migration restriction....we are only talking about the refugee system, after sheltering FAAAAAAAAAR more people than the US.

[Xing]

RIP Freedom of religion.

[The_Doctor]

@EnglishPete

No I respond to you as a clear anti Muslim poster (at minimum)  because your posting history and your clear emphasis on certain issues. Let's call a spade a spade. You are inherently anti Muslim and clearly that's tied to some sort of cultural identity you have as a European. This isn't a one off for you, its actually a consistent trend.

In simpler terms we call it bigotry. No matter how fancy you dress it up or how many stories you post. The entire forum recognizes it as well. The rhetoric and language is pretty familiar and standard book.

You can toss all the links you want to sound sophisticated but you're still pushing the ugly ideology we've all seen.

[EnglishPete]

@EnglishPete

No I respond to you as a clear anti Muslim poster (at minimum)  because your posting history and your clear emphasis on certain issues. Let's call a spade a spade. You are inherently anti Muslim and clearly that's tied to some sort of cultural identity you have as a European. This isn't a one off for you, its actually a consistent trend.

In simpler terms we call it bigotry. No matter how fancy you dress it up or how many stories you post. The entire forum recognizes it as well. The rhetoric and language is pretty familiar and standard book.

You can toss all the links you want to sound sophisticated but you're still pushing the ugly ideology we've all seen.

I see you're trying to change the subject here.

The subject is the liberal media. Specifically the way that time after time after time they've used the tactic of uncritically broadcasting the stories of some bullsh**tter with a sob story if their story helps push a desired propaganda points.

The fact there has been case after case of these debunked never seems to make any difference. No matter how many fake hate crimes are revealed the liberal media will uncritically broadcast the next sob story without the slightest note of doubt or even of doing anything to verify the story so long as it fits the 'narrative'.

The bullsh**t artists used are of all creeds and colours and both sexes and the liberal media seem to have no shame about using them. That's why people call them 'fake news'.

[publicunofficial]

"fake news" described a real thing about a month ago, and was quickly adopted by the stupidest, meanest lowlifes to describe everything

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

"fake news" described a real thing about a month ago, and was quickly adopted by the stupidest, meanest lowlifes to describe everything

It is a reflection of our times. Fake news. Fake democracy. Fake president.

[America Needs R'hllor]

It is a privilege to come to the United States, not a right. What happened to her might have been degrading but she didn't have to come into the United States when there are Canadian stores with the same toys and it probably would've been cheaper to not come to the US.

This is exactly why so many people worldwide have a very unfavorable opinion of America. You're not some heavenly kingdom of god which we all must beg to set our filthy feet on its divine soil. Also, what happened here was denying the freedom of movement on a religious basis. Stop trying to excuse your authoritarian regime because of partisanship.

This specific case, if the event happened as it is reported in the article, is clearly ridiculous.

However, on principle, I think it is in our best interest to not act like we owe anything to people of other countries when it comes to immigration policy. If America stands to benefit from that travel (such as in the case of Mexican immigration or a Canadian taking a shopping trip to Vermont), then we should be gracious hosts but if American interests are threatened by an immigration policy then we ought to have every right to protect ourselves.

We the people of the US guaranteed justice, domestic tranquility, common defence, general welfare, and the blessings of liberty to OURSELVES and OUR POSTERITY. We should be careful not to forget that.

I do think that compassion is very important and that it's inhumane to not help taking in some refugees, especially with as a country with such a huge population which can help quite a lot of people without being fazed, but I agree that if the amounts of immigrants or refugees are too big to handle, it's absolutely necessary to put the interests of your own citizens first.
But the notion that it's such a privilege to come into the US is one of the things that makes it much harder for me to defend America in arguments.

     In principle it applies to any country; nobody except its citizens and permanent residents has a right to enter the country. It just so happens that Americans have a lot more hubris about it than other people do.

Also so happens we are seemingly held to a standard other (specifically European countries) aren't sometimes.

What? Clearly you aren't. The Europeans are taking, in fact, far more than they can handle.

[Gass3268]

ESPN: Ibtihaj Muhammad 'disheartened' after hold by U.S. customs

American Olympian Fencer who won bronze last year in Rio. First American athlete to compete in the Olympics with a hijab. Born in Maplewood, New Jersey, but says she was she was stopped for two hours by U.S. customs last month.

Terrifying

[Tartarus Sauce]

@EnglishPete

No I respond to you as a clear anti Muslim poster (at minimum)  because your posting history and your clear emphasis on certain issues. Let's call a spade a spade. You are inherently anti Muslim and clearly that's tied to some sort of cultural identity you have as a European. This isn't a one off for you, its actually a consistent trend.

In simpler terms we call it bigotry. No matter how fancy you dress it up or how many stories you post. The entire forum recognizes it as well. The rhetoric and language is pretty familiar and standard book.

You can toss all the links you want to sound sophisticated but you're still pushing the ugly ideology we've all seen.

I see you're trying to change the subject here.

The subject is the liberal media. Specifically the way that time after time after time they've used the tactic of uncritically broadcasting the stories of some bullsh**tter with a sob story if their story helps push a desired propaganda points.

The fact there has been case after case of these debunked never seems to make any difference. No matter how many fake hate crimes are revealed the liberal media will uncritically broadcast the next sob story without the slightest note of doubt or even of doing anything to verify the story so long as it fits the 'narrative'.

The bullsh**t artists used are of all creeds and colours and both sexes and the liberal media seem to have no shame about using them. That's why people call them 'fake news'.

But, the bullsh**t artists at Breitbart, Drudge Report, and Fox News are just fine, right? You love those bullsh*t artists, they get English Pete's seal of approval.

You know why nobody takes you seriously? Because you're not interesting and bring nothing interesting to the table. There are a dime a dozen political hacks just like you on this forum as it is, and the only trait that makes you stand out is the sheer depth of your dogmatism. Everybody here has their more hackish tendencies, but you stand out as 100% pure hack. You spout nothing but pure white grievance politics, every post is something about how the liberal media is ruining everything, or how liberals are hypocritical simpletons at best or malicious deviants that are the scum of the earth. You don't care about discussion, you don't care about other perspectives or even the value of differing perspectives. You have no unique insights or novel ideas to share. You are here to broadcast your grievance with liberals and the media and nothing else, that is your sole purpose for being on the forum.

I'm only responding to you because TD is directly addressing your egregious biases. TD is somebody I tend to read every time I come across his posts since he consistently posts insightful commentary. There are others here on the forum from across the political spectrum I read to synthesize their viewpoints. I'm not content with simply circle-jerking to people who agree with me on everything, I want to get other viewpoints to inform my own and modify my beliefs over time. Even Trump supporters, I want to know where they come from and why they feel the way they do.

You, on the other hand, were somebody I put on ignore rather quickly, because I recognized there was little to learn from your perspective. I get a more informative grasp on right wing political opinions from people who aren't you; you're so submerged in your rage and grief with liberal and "liberal media" that you are incapable of thinking of anything political outside the framework of the conservative-entertainment outrage complex. You seethe over liberals telling "false outrage" stories about how some sympathetic individual was attacked by some right wing meanie. Yet you would reflexively howl at the pure evil of liberals if you read about another Fox News story on "the war on Christmas," or some eyewitness account about how a Trump supporter was assaulted while wearing there "MAGA" hat. Have such incidences occurred? Of course, and it's also true that Muslims have been discriminated and profiled and attacked solely because of their religion as well. But not every story is true on the mainstream media circuit, but neither is every story on the right wing media circuit.

That's the crux of your problem: you don't hold your own preferred media to the same standards. Fox News and Breitbart and the like have serious bias and narrative manipulation problems and yet you couldn't care less, despite how blatant it is. No, only "liberal media" bias is a problem, that is a clear and consistent message of your posts. Your standpoint on the matter is so narrow-minded, one-sided, and egregiously partisan that it makes people not care about whatever point you want to make. Why should anybody care to have a conversation with you about liberals and liberal media bias when you and your preferred news sources are such a blatant example of the opposite side of the same coin?

There is a kernel of truth in your messages, but you are an awful messenger to provide it. You make people less sympathetic to your grievances by being such an unremitting partisan hack who has ideologically straitjacketed himself to the point of drivel and frivolousness in his quest to rhetorically drown the left-wing in an avalanche of incessant, one-sided caustic diatribes. You are either a troll or so hopelessly deluded in your own self-righteousness that the substantive difference on the nature of interacting with you is negligible from the former.

[Meclazine for Israel]

@EnglishPete

No I respond to you as a clear anti Muslim poster (at minimum)  because your posting history and your clear emphasis on certain issues. Let's call a spade a spade. You are inherently anti Muslim and clearly that's tied to some sort of cultural identity you have as a European. This isn't a one off for you, its actually a consistent trend.

In simpler terms we call it bigotry. No matter how fancy you dress it up or how many stories you post. The entire forum recognizes it as well. The rhetoric and language is pretty familiar and standard book.

You can toss all the links you want to sound sophisticated but you're still pushing the ugly ideology we've all seen.

You have to stop labelling people TD.

English Pete is entitled to an opinion.

I am not a Trump supporter. I didn't vote for him. But your only conversation with me is trying to label me as such.

I like anti-establishment. I like Bernie Sanders. I like anyone who can turn the media on it's head and bring them to their knees.

You seem fixated on placing individual people into a easily labelled boxes, and then turning the forum against them.

It's starting to get a little old. You are not the forum police.

[The_Doctor]

@EnglishPete

No I respond to you as a clear anti Muslim poster (at minimum)  because your posting history and your clear emphasis on certain issues. Let's call a spade a spade. You are inherently anti Muslim and clearly that's tied to some sort of cultural identity you have as a European. This isn't a one off for you, its actually a consistent trend.

In simpler terms we call it bigotry. No matter how fancy you dress it up or how many stories you post. The entire forum recognizes it as well. The rhetoric and language is pretty familiar and standard book.

You can toss all the links you want to sound sophisticated but you're still pushing the ugly ideology we've all seen.

I see you're trying to change the subject here.

The subject is the liberal media. Specifically the way that time after time after time they've used the tactic of uncritically broadcasting the stories of some bullsh**tter with a sob story if their story helps push a desired propaganda points.

The fact there has been case after case of these debunked never seems to make any difference. No matter how many fake hate crimes are revealed the liberal media will uncritically broadcast the next sob story without the slightest note of doubt or even of doing anything to verify the story so long as it fits the 'narrative'.

The bullsh**t artists used are of all creeds and colours and both sexes and the liberal media seem to have no shame about using them. That's why people call them 'fake news'.

No I'm not. Please stop using your schtick as some sort of anti-establishmentarian to cover up that you're a garden variety Islamophobobic alt rightist (@ a minimum) who quotes Breitbart because it confirms your worldview.

I don't respond to you anymore, because that's pretty much all you are, not an intellectual sophisticate. But your bashing of that Muslim woman was quite egregious.

[The_Doctor]

You have to stop labelling people TD.

English Pete is entitled to an opinion.

I am not a Trump supporter. I didn't vote for him. But your only conversation with me is trying to label me as such.

I like anti-establishment. I like Bernie Sanders. I like anyone who can turn the media on it's head and bring them to their knees.

You seem fixated on placing individual people into a easily labelled boxes, and then turning the forum against them.

It's starting to get a little old. You are not the forum police.

First of all, for some reason, every 4 out of 5th post you make here praises Trump nonstop. So your own "I am not a Trump supporter, I am an Australian observer of the two parties" is kind of wearing thin (much like bronz's "I'm so proud to be centrist" schtick). You act like a Trump supporter on this forum. For all we know, in actual life, you may be a thoughtful balanced person but when you hold your man's water nonstop here, well there you go. Have a little more balanced opinion and you might be a little more believable on that part.

I don't remember our conversation, in the slightest, at this point so I can't address whatever I said.

I'm not simply labeling EnglishPete. You'll note I reference his posting history, and his crap. I've engaged him before and I've read him avidly. And he consistently appropriates the language of the alt-right and the issues of the Alt-Right, specifically the racially motivated segment of the Alt-Right. I ignore EnglishPete a lot, I was just annoyed he passively aggressively decided to bash that Muslim woman and make it a channel for his anti-Islamism.

A lot of people don't like the liberal establishment, or the Left or the Democratic Party or whatever. I understand that. I agree with that point of view mostly. Donald Trump was one of my final two choices on my ballot (and Hillary Clinton wasn't). I spent the last eight years disagreeing strongly with the Left's policies. I'll cop to being far more establishment than anti-establishment. I don't have a problem with the media the Alt-Right does. And that's a legitimate discussion we can all have and an interesting one at that.

And I'm not the forum police or labeling people (or interested in boxing in people). Be a Trump supporter or be Alt-Right all you want or be whatever you want and say whatever you want. The thing is, don't expect people to not make judgments about you based on what you post about and what you choose to emphasis. You're not a special snowflake.

Regarding being the forum police, I would hate being a mod for that exact reason. I definitely do think that some people need to be called out and addressed for certain tactics and issue emphases. As much as EnglishPete is entitled to his opinion, I'm likewise entitled to mine calling him out. You can read mine or don't.

[Meclazine for Israel]

We are not alt-right people TD. I think you will find we are just fed up with bullsh**t. I don't care for Trump that much, but I love how he got the hot iron out and sticks it into the establishment, hard. The USA needs that. The media needs that. Things need to change.

The US immigration policy is flawed, and any deviation from that flawed policy is viewed as racist. Sudanese refugees now account (as a percentage) for more criminal convictions than any other ethnic group in Australia (they surpass the next ethnic group's convictions by about 200%).

I had never heard of carjackings in Perth until it was imported from Africa. Now it's a fact of life. When you take on refugees, you should have limits and checks in place before you expose your citizens to them.

Japan takes virtually no refugees - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/30/japan-says-it-must-look-after-its-own-before-allowing-syrian-refugees-in

One of the common misconceptions is that "If you support border protection against these countries, you are racist." That is not true.

For example in Australia, we have a bad perception on immigration policy in the USA because we locked our borders to illegal boat arrivals

But to give you some facts:

1. Australia takes more UNHCR refugees per capita than any country on the planet;
2. Australia has taken more Syrian refugees than the USA, total;
3. Australia has not had an illegal arrival by boat since 2013;
4. Prior to 2013, Australia had over 1,200 refugees drown at sea within 24 months.

But we get people on here telling us how illegal and horrible our immigration policy is.

Australia hand selects refugees within their country of origin. We want genuine refugees.

We need to be able to have more realistic discussions about "actual" effective policy reform rather than personal opinions of each other.

I just think you are missing these discussions with people before you put the knife in. You are missing the actual debate and throwing us under a bus. Then people just shut down.

[EnglishPete]

@EnglishPete

No I respond to you as a clear anti Muslim poster (at minimum)  because your posting history and your clear emphasis on certain issues. Let's call a spade a spade. You are inherently anti Muslim and clearly that's tied to some sort of cultural identity you have as a European. This isn't a one off for you, its actually a consistent trend.

In simpler terms we call it bigotry. No matter how fancy you dress it up or how many stories you post. The entire forum recognizes it as well. The rhetoric and language is pretty familiar and standard book.

You can toss all the links you want to sound sophisticated but you're still pushing the ugly ideology we've all seen.

I see you're trying to change the subject here.

The subject is the liberal media. Specifically the way that time after time after time they've used the tactic of uncritically broadcasting the stories of some bullsh**tter with a sob story if their story helps push a desired propaganda points.

The fact there has been case after case of these debunked never seems to make any difference. No matter how many fake hate crimes are revealed the liberal media will uncritically broadcast the next sob story without the slightest note of doubt or even of doing anything to verify the story so long as it fits the 'narrative'.

The bullsh**t artists used are of all creeds and colours and both sexes and the liberal media seem to have no shame about using them. That's why people call them 'fake news'.

No I'm not. Please stop using your schtick as some sort of anti-establishmentarian to cover up that you're a garden variety Islamophobobic alt rightist (@ a minimum) who quotes Breitbart because it confirms your worldview.

I don't respond to you anymore, because that's pretty much all you are, not an intellectual sophisticate. But your bashing of that Muslim woman was quite egregious.

If you have been following my posts, as you say you have, you will have noticed that I often call out people, such as Michelle Fields, Ben Terris, Jessica Leeds, Robert Reich, the entire Washington Post editorial board, various people presenting fake hate crime accounts etc for being liars who parade sob stories around the media to promote themselves and their political agenda.

I don't criticise or call out Muslims for being Muslims.

Have you considered the possibility that maybe this is just another example of me calling out yet another of the endless parade of bullsh**tters with sob stories that are reported earnestly in our media and that I do this to all kinds of people regardless of creed, colour or sex.

[The_Doctor]

@EnglishPete. I skimmed your entire posting history since I missed some of it. Yeah, it's pretty clear you like to run behind a intellectual facade of seemingly egalitarian instincts but you're pretty much your average Islamophobe and garden variety racial/ethnic conservative instead of more of the neoconservative/Bush 43 types. I did note with amusement your concern over Joe McCarthy being a scapegoat. I don't think anyone believes that your Breitbart adoration is anything disassociated with certain feelings you hold, either. You don't spell out your actual feelings because you know this forum would immediately jump down your throat, but yeah, read between the lines, and it's pretty patently clear.

Not going to waste more time on you to assemble that particular case so you can try to weasel out of it and claim I misinterpreted you.

@Meclazine, I'm not an immigration liberal. I happen to be an immigration center-right conservative. I have spelled out very clearly I am for refugee vetting, I am for deporting of all illegal immigrants post-January 20, I am for enforcement of our immigration statutes. I have said elsewhere I would support the Muslim ban if it was demonstrated it would actually protect the United States' long term interests but I don't think it's going to help. I have consistently said we're in a war against radical Islam.  

The issue is when certain types on these forums for example nonstop scream about immigration and cry about Islam and never have a balanced approach to the topic. Nine out of ten times, like JJC, they'll be subtly saying "We actually mean that we want a white Europe, a white America, a white Australia, and we don't want other types." These people traffic in denouncing mainstream news and talk about certain issues in the context that if you read it as they mean it, they actually have a intense racial/ethnic subtext. And of course, their intense support for Donald Trump is linked to this behavior.

The conservative movement needs to get rid of these types of people, who, when they talk about "nationalism," actually are speaking code for "white nationalism." They consistently drag down the movement to justify their dislike of "other people." It's disgusting, morally reprehensible and it's a legacy of George Wallace.

And that's all I have to say on it.

[Badger]

@EnglishPete

No I respond to you as a clear anti Muslim poster (at minimum)  because your posting history and your clear emphasis on certain issues. Let's call a spade a spade. You are inherently anti Muslim and clearly that's tied to some sort of cultural identity you have as a European. This isn't a one off for you, its actually a consistent trend.

In simpler terms we call it bigotry. No matter how fancy you dress it up or how many stories you post. The entire forum recognizes it as well. The rhetoric and language is pretty familiar and standard book.

You can toss all the links you want to sound sophisticated but you're still pushing the ugly ideology we've all seen.

You have to stop labelling people TD.

English Pete is entitled to an opinion.

I am not a Trump supporter. I didn't vote for him. But your only conversation with me is trying to label me as such.

I like anti-establishment. I like Bernie Sanders. I like anyone who can turn the media on it's head and bring them to their knees.

You seem fixated on placing individual people into a easily labelled boxes, and then turning the forum against them.

It's starting to get a little old. You are not the forum police.

TD is equally entitled his opinion, chuckles, and to post same a well.

the fact that his rightly calling EP out as a literal fascist bigot, apparantly annoys you more than EP's posts cut and pasted from Stormfront says little for your character.

[Meclazine for Israel]

THanks TD, an excellent response.

[EnglishPete]

TD

Here's a video all about people like you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxSxeOvaor8

[publicunofficial]

TD

Here's a video all about people like you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxSxeOvaor8

Your posts scream of "17 year old whose first political awakening was Gamergate"

[EnglishPete]

TD

Here's a video all about people like you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxSxeOvaor8

Your posts scream of "17 year old whose first political awakening was Gamergate"

[Tender Branson]

Sad.

On the other hand, a female Iranian doctor named Shirin J. (41) has been allowed into the US after she changed her headwear at the airport:



http://dietagespresse.com/endlich-problemlos-in-die-usa-iranerin-ersetzt-kopftuch-durch-angemessene-kopfbedeckung