Marine Le Pen will not allow French citizens to hold any additional citizenship

[Lord Halifax]

Utterly ridiculous, some people have multiple identities, and it is load of small minded crap to suggest otherwise.

Like, if someone can identify as being a Real Madrid supporter and French at the same time, they can identify as Vietnamese and French or whatever, there isn't any contradiction.

Its not a matter of identity, but loyalty. You can only be fully loyal to one state. Of course this is less of a problem if the two countries where you are a citizen are on friendly terms, but its still not ideal for a country to have citizens who also owe loyalty to a foreign country.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I swear if that actually happens (please God no please God no please God no please God no please God no) I'm keeping my Italian citizenship. Even though I have never lived in Italy in the past two decades. Even though the economy there is awful.

Well that's Europe still so you could keep both.

I really don't give much weight to that reassurance considering that if Le Pen wins her first order of business is gonna be to get France out of the EU.

[Santander]

I swear if that actually happens (please God no please God no please God no please God no please God no) I'm keeping my Italian citizenship. Even though I have never lived in Italy in the past two decades. Even though the economy there is awful.

Well that's Europe still so you could keep both.

I really don't give much weight to that reassurance considering that if Le Pen wins her first order of business is gonna be to get France out of the EU.

You don't really think this is about forcing French-Italian citizens to choose between the two countries, do you?

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

David B is much more realistic here than neurotic ag.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

If anything, I would argue nation states destroy cultures through their homogenising effect. Israel is a prime example, especially in its early years.

^^^^^^^

DavidB, what's your opinion on Yiddish?

[ag]

If anything, I would argue nation states destroy cultures through their homogenising effect. Israel is a prime example, especially in its early years.

^^^^^^^

DavidB, what's your opinion on Yiddish?

He needs it vi a lokh in kop.

[ag]

David B is much more realistic here than neurotic ag.

When somebody like you approves of something, you know it has to be wrong

[Santander]

I hate to say it, but I find ag's prickliness endearing.

[ag]

I hate to say it, but I find ag's prickliness endearing.

This is deeply offensive to me.

[DavidB.]

Yeah, terrible idea by MLP. Additional citizenship is not a problem.

Its not a matter of identity, but loyalty. You can only be fully loyal to one state. Of course this is less of a problem if the two countries where you are a citizen are on friendly terms, but its still not ideal for a country to have citizens who also owe loyalty to a foreign country.

This is an absurd idea. Apart from the fact that there is no contradiction between being French and being Israeli, loyalty (whatever that even means) is in your heart, it's not based on one's passport. Dutch Turks wouldn't stop being Erdobots if they lost their Turkish passports, and I, who doesn't hold Israeli citizenship, am as Zionist as it gets. The expectation that a passport implies owing loyalty to a country is just naive. It doesn't work like that. Besides, how do you even define loyalty?

"weakening of the Jewish people through assimilation" is a bizarre statement. Very assimilated Jews in America who are basically indistinguishable culturally from non-Jews except they might not celebrate Christmas certainly have an easier time than mostly unassimilated minority groups.

Non-sequitur. Of course assimilated Jews generally have it easy. Doesn't mean it doesn't weaken us as a people.

You don't really think this is about forcing French-Italian citizens to choose between the two countries, do you?

It doesn't matter what "this is really about" if the consequences of this policy do affect people who hold French and Italian citizenship, or French and Canadian citizenship.

If anything, I would argue nation states destroy cultures through their homogenising effect. Israel is a prime example, especially in its early years.

Israel's case is pretty unique in this regard, France is perhaps a better example. And this is very true but also, perhaps unfortunately, a ship that has sailed.

DavidB, what's your opinion on Yiddish?

Pretty positive, but I prefer Hebrew.

[parochial boy]

Yeah, terrible idea by MLP. Additional citizenship is not a problem.

Its not a matter of identity, but loyalty. You can only be fully loyal to one state. Of course this is less of a problem if the two countries where you are a citizen are on friendly terms, but its still not ideal for a country to have citizens who also owe loyalty to a foreign country.

This is an absurd idea. Apart from the fact that there is no contradiction between being French and being Israeli, loyalty (whatever that even means) is in your heart, it's not based on one's passport. Dutch Turks wouldn't stop being Erdobots if they lost their Turkish passports, and I, who doesn't hold Israeli citizenship, am as Zionist as it gets. The expectation that a passport implies owing loyalty to a country is just naive. It doesn't work like that. Besides, how do you even define loyalty?

Yeah, agreed. I don't want to speak for you, but if you were to become and Israeli citizen, I don't see why that would make you any less Dutch, or any less "loyal" to the Netherlands.

I am a dual national, but my loyalty to either country is not unconditional, and if at the moment, I feel more positive about one of my citizenships that the other, that is something that is purely emotional, has changes in the past, and will undoubtedly change in the future.

I think it is quite difficult for people who don't have multiples national identities to understand that.

[Lord Halifax]

Yeah, terrible idea by MLP. Additional citizenship is not a problem.

Its not a matter of identity, but loyalty. You can only be fully loyal to one state. Of course this is less of a problem if the two countries where you are a citizen are on friendly terms, but its still not ideal for a country to have citizens who also owe loyalty to a foreign country.

This is an absurd idea. Apart from the fact that there is no contradiction between being French and being Israeli, loyalty (whatever that even means) is in your heart, it's not based on one's passport. Dutch Turks wouldn't stop being Erdobots if they lost their Turkish passports, and I, who doesn't hold Israeli citizenship, am as Zionist as it gets. The expectation that a passport implies owing loyalty to a country is just naive. It doesn't work like that. Besides, how do you even define loyalty?

Loyalty to your homeland is hardly an absurd idea. Generally its in the interest of the state to limit the number of people with dual loyalties, and forcing them to choose between citizenships is one way to accomplish this. In the case of Turks (and Arabs, Pakistanis etc.) in Europe the proper solution in most cases would be to strip them of their European citizenship as their loyalty clearly is with the home country of their ancestors. This would make it easier to expel them if they cause trouble.

I understand your personal dilemma, but generally I think its undesirable having too many "multi-identity" citizens an forcing them to choose between citizenships is one way of reducing this problem.
The Afrikaners used to refer to British South Africans as "salt dicks", people with one leg in the UK and one in SA (and therefore having to spread so wide their junk got salty), and such types are best avoided or kept to a minimum.

[DavidB.]

Loyalty to one's homeland is not an absurd idea at all, obviously. However, it is naive to assume that holding citizenship of a certain country will cause a person to be loyal (however defined) to that country (and that country only) in this day and age. Whether you like it or not (and I don't), most people simply aren't nationalists anymore. Forcing people to choose between their citizenships will not change how they identify (though it may cause them to resent the fact that they have to choose). A strict immigration policy is the way to go if you want to remain a socially homogeneous country and that's something I absolutely support, but this type of initiative will not tackle any problem and harms well-meaning people.

You also touch upon another reason why I think it is bad to have immigrants or their descendants give up their foreign citizenship. I'm a big supporter of stripping people with multiple citizenships of their European passport and deporting them, and that's impossible if they don't have their foreign citizenship anymore.

As for parochial_boy, you get it My relationship with both my national identities is always evolving but always remains highly positive. I wouldn't want to give up my emotional attachment to any of them. I love both countries. There is no contradiction.