Farewell

[Hash]

But since you are a mod, I'll throw the issue back at you and ask why his banning has never been seriously considered.

because there's no unified mod team

[Antonio the Sixth]

But since you are a mod, I'll throw the issue back at you and ask why his banning has never been seriously considered.

because there's no unified mod team

Still, there's not sign it's even being discussed.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

But since you are a mod, I'll throw the issue back at you and ask why his banning has never been seriously considered.

because there's no unified mod team

Still, there's not sign it's even being discussed.

Well, we can't see posts in the cave, can we?

[dead0man]

But since you are a mod, I'll throw the issue back at you and ask why his banning has never been seriously considered.

because there's no unified mod team

Still, there's not sign it's even being discussed.

Well, we can't see posts in the cave, can we?

only if some dummy gives out his password like a retiree.

[Gustaf]

What I consider to be curious is that some people are willing to accept Beet's explanation that this was just a temper tantrum whereas ag has engaged in similar abusive behavior time and again since Brexit, when he lost all sanity. Especially for a moderator, telling someone to go kill themselves is not acceptable behavior. This is not relative to what Santander said. His behavior is obviously bad but irrelevant in this case. It's not "more okay" if someone says nasty things. Just rebuke it or report it. But telling someone to go kill themselves is a line you just don't cross.

I must add that I find it particularly interesting that Gustaf would trivialize this, since he has firsthand experience in being at the receiving end of unpleasant remarks like that (albeit of a different type); I certainly don't recall you being as cool back then as you are now. Dismissing people's shock over ag's comments as "pearl clutching" is also a little bit cheap. I have personally dealt with cases of suicide attempts by friends and trying to keep them from doing so too often not to be abhorred by ag's behavior.

I'm not sure what remarks you're referring to - I've taken a lot of abuse on the forum but I don't think I've had particularly strong reactions to it.

And I too have firsthand knowledge of suicide attempts - as I said I agree it was wrong. I'm just noting that the level of forum outrage varies in ways that I think have little to do with genuine concern. Had a more popular poster been provoked that way and snapped back I suspect a lot of people would have been a lot less concerned. Or, if the victim had been less popular. For example, hardly anyone was very outraged any of the times I received threats from posters because they don't particularly like me. That's the aspect of it that I find a bit pearl-clutchy.

[Gustaf]

I don't spend time campaigning to have people I dislike banned. Given that users immediately divided into polarized camps on the dude I guess moderators might do the same.

But it seems I was correct - Santander seems well liked enough for supporting genocide.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Is it too much to ask for, for people not to call Stalin humane? I tried to be as charitable to the dude as humanly possible, but one thing he wasn't was humane. He was one of the least humane totalitarians in human history. How would we expect someone with relatives who died in the Holocaust to react of calling Hitler humane was considered acceptable?

I personally have relatives who were killed in the Holocaust and absolutely didn't agree with Santander's comments, obviously. Still no reason to tell someone to kill themselves. And it is not only Santander who read that comment. The entire forum could read it. I know there are people here who have attempted suicide. I want them to be safe. Death wishes shouldn't be acceptable on this forum. And ag is a moderator! If he thought Santander's comments were against the TOS he should have reported them.

So, he lost his temper. We all lose our tempers from time to time. It proves he's a human being. And while his comment was inappropriate, so was Santander's. Ironically, had he not reacted as he did, I would not have noticed it, but now that I have, it's very clear.

Really, because previously, several instances of "lost tempers" resulted in immediate and permanent bans.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If Santander really did post what has been implied here that he did... um... then why hasn't he been banned? Honestly a lot of people have been kicked off this forum for a lot less. Or is it really true that popularity matters massively? It would be very disappointing if that were actually true.

[publicunofficial]

That isn't to condone references to suicide which I agree are generally inappropriate, but I suspect Santander will be able to continue to be an accepted member of the forum community.

Santander isn't (and hopefully will never be) an accepted member of the forum community.

But since you are a mod, I'll throw the issue back at you and ask why his banning has never been seriously considered.

Wtf

Santander is a hilarious and valued poster who totally doesn't deserve to be banned. He's sometimes insightful and often really funny. He is definitely accepted in the forum community, as he should

Remember when he kept referring to Chelsea Manning as "He" over and over again until Torie had to lock the thread? Hilarious good natured chap, we all love him.

No? That sounds like Extreme Republican.

It was both of them.

[Santander]

It was both of them.

I started that thread. I wrote "Chelsea Manning" in the thread title. Yes, I referred to Chelsea Manning as "he", and I made it very clear that this was an expression of contempt towards Chelsea Manning, and not towards all people who do not identify as their birth gender. I have also stated on numerous occasions that I do not consider transgenderism to be a mental illness or anything even approaching the sort, and that transgender individuals deserve to be treated as the human beings they are. If Manning were not transgender, I would have found another way to express my contempt.

Nice try, though.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It was both of them.

I started that thread. I wrote "Chelsea Manning" in the thread title. Yes, I referred to Chelsea Manning as "he", and I made it very clear that this was an expression of contempt towards Chelsea Manning, and not towards all people who do not identify as their birth gender.

OK, but it's like refeering to an African American as "n**ger" as an "expression of contempt" only. You may also say you have no racist feelings and it was just an individual case, but it still sounds pretty bad.

[Deblano]

It was both of them.

I started that thread. I wrote "Chelsea Manning" in the thread title. Yes, I referred to Chelsea Manning as "he", and I made it very clear that this was an expression of contempt towards Chelsea Manning, and not towards all people who do not identify as their birth gender.

OK, but it's like refeering to an African American as "n**ger" as an "expression of contempt" only. You may also say you have no racist feelings and it was just an individual case, but it still sounds pretty bad.

[JerryArkansas]

It was both of them.

I started that thread. I wrote "Chelsea Manning" in the thread title. Yes, I referred to Chelsea Manning as "he", and I made it very clear that this was an expression of contempt towards Chelsea Manning, and not towards all people who do not identify as their birth gender. I have also stated on numerous occasions that I do not consider transgenderism to be a mental illness or anything even approaching the sort, and that transgender individuals deserve to be treated as the human beings they are. If Manning were not transgender, I would have found another way to express my contempt.

Nice try, though.

You really are digging yourself into a deeper hole.  That is so much worse.  Misgendering someone because you don't like them. Grow up dude.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Good riddens.


And Santander, it's not cool to misgender people. I don't think you deserve to be banned and believe you're telling the truth about your views, but a transgender person could easily take the post as an attack on the transgender community, and that's not a good thing. It also risks Extreme Republican thinking there is actual support for the whole "transgender isn't real/is a mental illness" thing and finding a way to use that to his advantage.

[Green Line]

But I thought gender was a fluid.  How are we supposed to keep up?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

But I thought gender was a fluid.  How are we supposed to keep up?

If someone tells you what gender they identify as, address them according to that gender. I don't believe it makes any sense for me to go around asking what pronouns people prefer - it could make someone uncomfortable, make them think I'm accusing them of being something they're not, or just plain look stupid. If you don't tell me anything, I'll just assume based on appearance/prior statements. But if you tell me you're transgender/non-binary/what have you, I'm going to be decent and respect that. Because transgender people exist and are a fact of life.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I'm not sure why anyone would try to make excuses for a moderator who encourages a poster to kill himself. To say nothing of the violent and abusive material in the other posts that he made in the same thread. Indefensible. This was the culmination of a disturbed pattern of behavior that Nym and Dave should have addressed months ago. Maybe no one told them about it.

It was kind of confusing that his behavior never entered our radar. It feels weird to indict a fellow mod, but I'm relatively new to this.

[Mr. Morden]

I'm not sure why anyone would try to make excuses for a moderator who encourages a poster to kill himself. To say nothing of the violent and abusive material in the other posts that he made in the same thread. Indefensible. This was the culmination of a disturbed pattern of behavior that Nym and Dave should have addressed months ago. Maybe no one told them about it.

It was kind of confusing that his behavior never entered our radar.

There was a thread devoted to it on the mod board here:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=257023.0

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I'm not sure why anyone would try to make excuses for a moderator who encourages a poster to kill himself. To say nothing of the violent and abusive material in the other posts that he made in the same thread. Indefensible. This was the culmination of a disturbed pattern of behavior that Nym and Dave should have addressed months ago. Maybe no one told them about it.

It was kind of confusing that his behavior never entered our radar.

There was a thread devoted to it on the mod board here:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=257023.0

Ah. (I don't go there as much as I should) I'm glad it came up.

[Bacon King]

only if some dummy gives out his password like a retiree.

luv u 2 dead0 bby

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Not cool, dea0man.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If Santander really did post what has been implied here that he did... um... then why hasn't he been banned? Honestly a lot of people have been kicked off this forum for a lot less. Or is it really true that popularity matters massively? It would be very disappointing if that were actually true.

We've had posters who were very straightforward about being admirers of Stalin and other commie mass murderers.  Did anyone consider banning TNF or WinstonDisraeli over this?   Or do you mean because for Santander it is obvious trolling?

[Associate Justice PiT]

If Santander really did post what has been implied here that he did... um... then why hasn't he been banned? Honestly a lot of people have been kicked off this forum for a lot less. Or is it really true that popularity matters massively? It would be very disappointing if that were actually true.

We've had posters who were very straightforward about being admirers of Stalin and other commie mass murderers.  Did anyone consider banning TNF or WinstonDisraeli over this?   Or do you mean because for Santander it is obvious trolling?

     It's curious that, not just on this forum but also in society at-large, communism is somehow tolerated even though fascism is rightly reviled. Not the most relevant point, but something I have been thinking about for a while.

[dead0man]

Communists have a better PR department.  Everybody knows the stupid sh**t they say like "Communism has never been tried, man".

[ApatheticAustrian]

communism sounds nice in theory...fascism doesn't.

some nice guys claim to be communists....usually doesn't happen in case of fascists