Farewell

[Gustaf]

I hope you'll reconsider though I think the reaction is pretty understandable.

[Gustaf]

Yeah, I agree with Beet that I think it's curious that people are so willing to accept that piece of trash Santander for his comment, rejoicing in the death of AG's family and yet are so pearl-clutching about his reaction.

That isn't to condone references to suicide which I agree are generally inappropriate, but I suspect Santander will be able to continue to be an accepted member of the forum community.

[Gustaf]

What I consider to be curious is that some people are willing to accept Beet's explanation that this was just a temper tantrum whereas ag has engaged in similar abusive behavior time and again since Brexit, when he lost all sanity. Especially for a moderator, telling someone to go kill themselves is not acceptable behavior. This is not relative to what Santander said. His behavior is obviously bad but irrelevant in this case. It's not "more okay" if someone says nasty things. Just rebuke it or report it. But telling someone to go kill themselves is a line you just don't cross.

I must add that I find it particularly interesting that Gustaf would trivialize this, since he has firsthand experience in being at the receiving end of unpleasant remarks like that (albeit of a different type); I certainly don't recall you being as cool back then as you are now. Dismissing people's shock over ag's comments as "pearl clutching" is also a little bit cheap. I have personally dealt with cases of suicide attempts by friends and trying to keep them from doing so too often not to be abhorred by ag's behavior.

I'm not sure what remarks you're referring to - I've taken a lot of abuse on the forum but I don't think I've had particularly strong reactions to it.

And I too have firsthand knowledge of suicide attempts - as I said I agree it was wrong. I'm just noting that the level of forum outrage varies in ways that I think have little to do with genuine concern. Had a more popular poster been provoked that way and snapped back I suspect a lot of people would have been a lot less concerned. Or, if the victim had been less popular. For example, hardly anyone was very outraged any of the times I received threats from posters because they don't particularly like me. That's the aspect of it that I find a bit pearl-clutchy.

[Gustaf]

I don't spend time campaigning to have people I dislike banned. Given that users immediately divided into polarized camps on the dude I guess moderators might do the same.

But it seems I was correct - Santander seems well liked enough for supporting genocide.

[Gustaf]

hated white folks,

Sure, I hate you. Please feel free to reference that fact.

hated white folks,

Sure, I hate you. Please feel free to reference that fact.

Ok. Let me make a serious statement, for once.

1. I, actually, understand where the Trump support is coming from. Yes, there are many people in the US who feel that "the elites" are usurping the power, do not care about them, do not share their values, etc. I, of course, do not share those sentiments, but I do see how this can be a strong feeling.

2. This feeling is not limited to the US, of course. In fact, in much of the world the same feeling of impotent rage against the elites that many Americans feel domestically is directed against all Americans as a group. Aren't Americans the worldwide "elite"? Many Russians, for instance, would, as a matter of course, answer in the affirmative. The world, in their worldview, is governed by the "Washington obkom".

3. Of course, there are no real elites governing the world. Society is a complex organism, and no group of people can control or direct it. Nor is there a cohesive group with alligned interests that could try to do so. The world, really, is a lot more chaotic than many people suppose.

4. Miraculously, this chaos over the last 70 years has been, at least in the "first world", resolved without major conflagrations that had been the norm for most of our history, and remain the norm in many places till now. This has been achieved, in great part, because after the catastrophe of the two world wars societies converged to some modicum of political and social moderation. They say that Mexicans are so polite (and Mexican conventions are those of exaggerated politeness) because 100 years ago an impolite word could have resulted in shooting. In a sense, the same has been true of our societies in general. We could continue to think whatever we thought of those not like us (be that socially, ethnically, religiously, racially or whatever) but we tended to hold our mouths under some control. Having survived the World Wars nobody was willing to risk provoking them anew.

5. Well, this is, increasingly, no longer the case. The generation which survived the wars is gone. Their children do not understand where the politeness conventions are coming from: they think these are elite plots to subdue the straight-talking simple folk.

6. Trump has done away with courtesies of the recent decades and his supporters love it. Well, I view my role here as educational. I am performing, of course and I am being nasty and offensive. I do this for a reason. You have insisted on taking away the veneer of civilization that has maintained peace. Well, live with it. Smell the urine. Alas, unless we collectively recoil, soon we all will be smelling blood.

Yes, I am scared. And I am screaming.

You make is sound as if Donald Trump is the key to all problems facing the world

No, not Trump. Trump's supporters. The are the "deplorables". Trump is a run-of-the-mill scoundrel. His supporters are much worse.

Hillary is scum honest for showing such contempt and loathing for millions of hard working, tax paying Americans with this deplorable prepared text. scum

Corrected.

I hope he stays gone.  I don't understand why there wasn't a permaban issued.

Lol, what in that is banworthy? I Think you should stop being such a sensitive snowflake and act like a grown man.